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Thread: In the same boat with Sal,... help

  1. #1
    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Question In the same boat with Sal,... help

    Sal,

    I bought my mother a new T/C Omega X7 for this past Ohio muzzleloader season. I cleaned it thoroughly before ever shooting it. Couldn't get the factory protectant out of the barrel. Solvent, soap, you name it, couldn't get a clean patch... Finally got it "clean enough". When she went to shoot T/C super glide shockwaves... mom couldn't get them more than three inches down the barrel. I could "force" them down, but with way more force than should be necessary. I kept using the supplied No. 13 cleaner, trying to condition the barrel (it should have had a good amount in the metal from the pre-cleaning ritual) in hopes of making them slide easy enough for mom to shoot confidently. After 10 rounds of forcing sabots and cleaning between shots, they still weren't going down any easier. I switched to my Barnes Expander MZ's (that are tackdrivers out of my Lyman GPH 50 cal). No better... she couldn't get them down the barrel. I then went to some Hornady XTP sabots... still couldn't get them down the barrel without two handing the rod with all her strength.

    I'm now pissed. I've owned two T/C hawkens with no problems. I wanted the X7 to work because it was the right length of pull for her, but she can't get a sabot down the barrel on her own... ridiculous.

    I resorted to powerbelts because of the different design. I don't like them personally but I figured her slightly undersized barrel might seal the powerbelts more effectively. Sure enough, she could seat a powerbelt with no problems. The X7 cloverleafs the 250 grainers at 50 yards.

    I also switched solvents and went with my Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine which I use in my Lyman and love. This didn't change the tightness either.

    Still can't get the patches to come clean between shots. I'm in the same boat with you, so your not alone. I've been shooting traditional bp rifles for years with no problems. This is the first in-line I've dealt with. I know T/C makes quality guns and barrels, so I don't think I have an undersized barrel.

    I would appreciate any inputs that could resolve this problem from the experts on this forum.
    __________________

    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

  2. #2

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    I'm fond of a benchrest cleaner called JB Paste. It includes a mild abrasive that won't hurt a bore but is death on stubborn fouling such as you describe. On my Lymans the stuff they coat the bores with was tough to get out initially, and accuracy suffered because of it. It came right out with JB.

  3. #3
    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Question plasticizing

    In regards to the T/C X7, there was never an issue of lead fowling. It was a new gun with only sabots pushed through it. I know that plasticizing will develop, but cleaning between shots and the use of a bore brush should make plasticizing a non-issue. I don't think that plastic build-up could prevent the loading of sabots in new cleaned barrel, or the cosmoline from the manufacturer. I've read the chuckhawks (www.chuckhawks.com) article on not being able to get a sabot down the T/C barrels, I tried the different sabots as prescribed, but still a no go. The buffalo bores (which I have no problem with) and powerbelts are all that can be loaded readily. Inexperience is not a factor, barrels are barrels regardless of ignition type.

    My question would be this. Will this T/C barrel have to be shot 100+ times to "break it into sabots" (just take time to wear the barrel that .001"-.002"). Or am I just stuck with a tight bored T/C that will only shoot bore sized projectiles. Your thoughts please.
    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

  4. #4

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    If it's not a diameter issue (determined by slugging the bore), then there very well could be issues with smoothness of the boring job for tight fitting sabots. "Lapping" the barrel would smooth it up more quickly than a prolonged breakin period because I doubt that even 100 shots with plastic sabots and brass brush cleaning would accomplish much.

    I have an older Knight 54 that was pretty tough to load with sabots, and a bore light revealed more tooling marks than I liked. There are lots of ways to lap, but I simply used a tight-fitting jag and a cleaning patch with rubbed with very fine grinding compound. Did a half a dozen slow steady passes and the bore light confirmed I was making progress. Half a dozen more passes and it suited me better. Sabots now load lots easier, plus the accuracy improved with all projectiles. Best of all, it seems to foul less.

    A Traditions sidelock seems to be suffering from a rough bore, but I haven't tried lapping it yet. Can't pull the breech plug on it reasonably, and for no good reason I've been reluctant to run the lap through both ways. No sense to it, but that's been my excuse for putting it off.

    I've been distracted by a few other problems with the Traditions, so that contributes. I sent an email to their warranty department about the problem over a month ago and they haven't graced me with the courtesy of a reply. Yup, I'm down on Traditions at the moment, so I guess I'm a little reluctant to put any more work into a gun that might be going back for warranty repairs (when pigs fly, I think), or being sold off cheap. Come to think of it, maybe I shouldn't foist it off on another victim. A load of 200 grains of FFF, three or four patched balls spaced an inch apart in the bore and a LONG string come to mind. I think I would enjoy that, and it's a better fate for junk.

  5. #5
    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Thumbs up thanks for the tip

    Make sure you video and post your Traditions retribution....I personally don't like Traditions, but to each his own. Some don't like Lyman.

    Seriously though, I though about lapping the bore with some Clover lapping compound in 600 grit... My reluctance was whether or not it would do anything to the warranty. I dropped four bills on the gun and didn't want to tarnish the warranty. Maybe T/C won't notice the difference... If I have to end up sending it in.

    T/C preaches the ease of two pellets and their shockwave sabots. This is the setup (because of ease) that I wanted to introduce her to, and I had to resort to her useing Powerbelts (don't get me started on them)... However, I got her squared away with an 80grain pellet load pushing a 350 grain T/C maxi-hunter.

    What grit do you suggest with lapping compound? Is 600 too coarse?
    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

  6. #6

    Default Yup

    600 Clover is what I used. Just be gentle and take your time. If you don't have a bore light or scope, try making 4-6 passes, then clean it and try running a sabot through it without reinstalling the breech plug. I think you'll notice a difference even after that little, but how much further you want to take it is a judgement call on your part.

  7. #7
    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Thanks

    Thanks for the guidance Brownbear, I'll get on it this summer and see if cures the problem. It should alleviate the tightness a little, and make the barrel more accurate.
    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

  8. #8

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    A tight Omega bore? That sounds familiar. I used the polishing compound that you use for ceramic range tops to lap the barrel. It helped some. Then I took just the tiniest bit of Bore Butter, just enough to feel it on my fingers and ever so slightly coated some sabots. (I know your not supposed to lube them but I was desperate and tired of removing the breech plug to unload the powder and tap the sabot and bullet back out.) Success, and it didn't ruin my accuracy. American Pioneer powder also has a lot less residue than triple seven or pyrodex. It seems to serve a a dry lubricant as advertized. My groups were reasonable for open sights at 50 yards, about an inch.

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    akdres,
    First off thanks for the post. I thought I was going nuts there for a while. Actually you ended up doing the same thing I was forced to do. I tried the 405 grain powerbelts on top of 100gns of pyrodex and it actually turned out to a very accurate combo in the gun. I was surprised after reading some stuff on the web about powerbelts. Never was able to connect on a Ft Rich Bull (another story), but I've definitely got the muzzeloader bug now.

    As for cleaning, I finally got past the mental block and figured as much as I cleaned it and considering the regimin, she's GOT to be clean. Still never have gotten her to where she'll produce a clean patch. No matter what I used or how long I used it, One more pull with the brush and she was still dirty. Hell, I even bought several brushes and cleaned them between pulls, thinking it was residual gunk.

    Anyway, after it warms up a little I'll be back at it trying to figure out a way to:
    1. Get her clean (to MY standards)
    2. Get something other than powerbelts down her neck.

    I may have to give the JB paste a try.

  10. #10
    Member Joel Zadvorney's Avatar
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    Ya know how there are different colored sabots? I know different manufactures use different sized sabot and the difference is in the .001 range. I don't know how to say it technically speaking..sorry. I noticed my TC encore likes the one brand(TC) and not the other(Cabelas and Knight) because they are too loose. I get blow-by and the accuracy suffers. Sounds like the polishing idea would work. A little goes a long way. good luck, joel

  11. #11
    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Wink been there done that

    Thanks for your input Joe, but I've tried Hornady, T/C, Barnes, all colors, three/four pedal sabot, etc. Those !@#$ things will not go down the barrel more than three inches or so. I end up going to my beefier composite ramrod that I have on a T/C Hawken to push them back out (removing the breechplug).

    I'm in Guam currently, and the gun is in WV, so I'll have to wait till summer/fall to lap it. I'm going to see what T/C has to say about the problem, and how they are going to resolve it.

    I know T/C is a great company, that makes great guns.... and stands behind them. This is the fourth T/C I've bought over the years, and love them all. This is the only problem I've had. I could lap the bore myself, but I shouldn't have to on a brand new gun. (Yes, if I want to bring it to my borescoped standards as brownbear suggested, but only to improve accuracy..... not to be able to load a projectile).

    Thanks for your suggestion though.
    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

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