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Thread: Keep it to yourself

  1. #1

    Angry Keep it to yourself

    You're all sharing way too much information!!

    I've been reading this forum for a while now and have had mixed feelings about it. There is allot of great information and help shared here and then there are those that feel compelled, for whatever self fullfilling reason, to share too much detail and specifics. I have seen locations mentioned here where I know subsistance hunting occurs and is respected, areas that can't take heavy wheeler pressure, areas that families with young hunters have been using for decades and areas that inexperienced hunters can get themselves in trouble, either with safety, the law or the locals.

    I have read, just recently, of hunters complainnig about "crowds" and limited access, one statement went something to the effect of "Alaska is changing, there are hunters everywhere you go". Well posts on this forumn disclosing specifics or worse giving directions, mile markers, lakes, etc. as to where to hunt aren't helping matters. And quite often it sounds like arm chair advice to inexperienced people who are looking for an easy way out instead of getting out there themselves and exploring.

    I am not begruding any oppurtunity to new or especially young hunters, but I believe anyone trying to discover and enjoy Alaska will be more satisfied and proud of themselves when they are successfull with only a little guideance that they built upon and succeeded.

    When specifics are given here, the hunters you are trying to help aren't the only ones that are going to read the "guideance". Other hunters will read it too and may take your advice. So what kind of experience is it going to be when someone shows up on a lake or trailhead that was mentioned here to find an overcrowded area. Doesn't sound like the kind of experience an "up and coming hunter" is going to enjoy and it just might sour them, which isn't in the best interest of hunting.

    We need dedicated, involved and most importantly ethical hunters to help the lifestyle, even here in Alaska where, as was pointed out, things are changing. We can best help these hunters by giving good sound advice about hunting, safety and the relationships with locals or traditional users and only general location guidance for them to explore. They may end up in the same spot that you would have suggested, but at least they found it on their own through their efforts while the others that read your threads with general information would just say, "yea what ever, where's the trail/lake?"

    And yes, areas that I have found through exploring, getting to know other hunters, research through Fish and Game and years of staring at maps - have been disclosed on this forumn which really irritates me!

    Stop and think about it, do you want to see your "honey hole" or your family hunting spot disclosed on this forumn and jeopardized?

    If they are serious about hunting and are dedicated they won't need everything given to them, they'll discover it on their own and enjoy every minute of it!

  2. #2

    Default keep it to your self

    I am sorry i respectivly disagree. I find this forumn a wealth of information ideas and suggestions. I have hunted, hiked and explored Alaska since 1979. I am grateful to people who have SHARED information to me. Yes i find many places myself. However i have reached the point where seeing others catch fish and hunt is important to me also. Providing that they take care of the land and respect nature. With the internet information is more redil;y avalibale and it will allow more people to disburse to more locations rather then just crowding into the same area. I thank those that share honest information and areas. Viktor

  3. #3
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    Default disagree as well

    Brian I also disagree with you. I never see anyone give away their honey hole spots. I see you took some interest in the Noatak and Kobuk River areas on another thread. It appeared that you were suprised to see more and more hunters headed up to that area. Is that your honey hole area? If so it is not a honey hole at all. Are you mad about people giving info on how to get to Bettles? Mad about more people hunting the NWAH?

  4. #4
    New member Longbow's Avatar
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    Default And a good old fashion book burning.

    After this, go for the other websites and forums of the same venue, then the publishers of travel guides and magazines; I am with you Ė screw all those born without our intuitive sense of where to go!

    Iíll bring the fixinís for smores Ö just tell me when and where Ė oh wait, you canít.

    LMAO!

  5. #5
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    Default

    Sorry, Brian, but I'm going to have to disagree with your post.

  6. #6
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    Default

    I, too, disagree. Having been a member of this forum for about three or more years, I've seen very few specific places mentioned. I have seen areas and to hunt the Western Arctic heerd instead of the Mulchatna but even the biologists will tell anyone that. And the changes in the limit will show where the caribou are in terms of hunting units. Sounds like someone found you favorite area and now you are upset. I fully understand but its not the fault of this, or any forum. Maybe the writers at Outdoor Life or Petersen's Hunting.

  7. #7
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    Default no such thing

    as subsistence

    where do these people get milk and lettuce, flour, ....cereal?

    same as everybody else!

    what a crock

  8. #8
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    Default I too disagree

    The entire purpose of this forum, and all others like it is for the purpose of meeting other outdoorsman, sharing stories and sharing information on where and how to do it. If there is a honey hole given up on the forum, so what, it can't be much of a honey hole if it is known by others now is it? Most of us hunters, fisherman and trappers are willing to share knowledge and space. I personally would take anyone into my best of best spots, if the spot is that good, it can handle an extra animal or two being taken, and its free land to hunt so I can't say that its mine. For me personally, its always been a joy to send someone out to an area that I know and hear of their success. I don't fault you in your thoughts, they are valid for your opinion, me personally I disagree. As outdoor sportsman, we should try and help one another as much as possible with all the pressure of the anti's we're faced with.

  9. #9
    Member dwhunter's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steeliekingfisher
    The entire purpose of this forum, and all others like it is for the purpose of meeting other outdoorsman, sharing stories and sharing information on where and how to do it. If there is a honey hole given up on the forum, so what, it can't be much of a honey hole if it is known by others now is it? Most of us hunters, fisherman and trappers are willing to share knowledge and space. I personally would take anyone into my best of best spots, if the spot is that good, it can handle an extra animal or two being taken, and its free land to hunt so I can't say that its mine. For me personally, its always been a joy to send someone out to an area that I know and hear of their success. I don't fault you in your thoughts, they are valid for your opinion, me personally I disagree. As outdoor sportsman, we should try and help one another as much as possible with all the pressure of the anti's we're faced with.
    Very well put and I agree wholeheartedly.

    Anyone interested in hog hunting in TX let me know I can put you on all that you want to shoot and with dogs as well if you are up to it.

    Doug

  10. #10
    Premium Member AZinAK's Avatar
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    Post Also disagree...

    I don't understand how else you are supposed to pass on the ethics and values you may hold so dearly if you don't network and meet new people. This is like anything else in life...it's all about how you carry yourself, handle the situation, and your better judgement. Yes, not letting yourself broaden your horizons or someone elses keeps things how they are...but then you, like all the people you would otherwise affect will stagnate in a slef revolving world...Passing it on is the best thing in the outdoors...I do it with anyone I can, and can't wait to with my son...my 3 cents...

    Happy hunting...

  11. #11
    New member DaveLuntz's Avatar
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    Default Big State

    Brian, Sorry - understand your feeling about protectionism, I cant say I havent been pissed more than once with the growing population in my hunting areas.. but, this state is made up mostly of public accesible land. Ive lived here for only eight years, and I dont believe after this short time that one person could see the entire state even in two or three life times unless you were totally on vacation the whole three life times, just too much too see and do.. I for one appreciate the others sharing information, too learn about areas by acctually going there would take too long. You only can get around out there for so long before your in the grave so THANK YOU OTHERS WHO VOLUNTEER INFORMATION. I would suggest if you or others want private land - buy a big parcel out in the bush and post it, live on it and have fun enjoying your life style.

    Good Hunting

  12. #12
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Cool old schoolers...

    dont want info out. It might mean a bit more work for that coveted 52"er, or that big ram. And hey, we all have a few things and places that remain unsaid, but many of us have shared lots of "WHERE" info on this forum.
    I well remember when I moved here to AK the naysayers offering no help at all, instead saying "It takes about five years to get a ram" or "moose are about impssible to find and bag". I made a point long ago to share my good fortune with pics etc. to those less encouraging folks. They usually feigned apathy to my success.

    The ethics stuff? YES, its important, but many beat it to death here on ODD. I laugh when I see posters post nothing but ethical jargon and prognosticating, but offer little of no substative info on where to actually bag game to feed the family. Enough hot air to heat Coldfoot in January.

    fk

  13. #13

    Default thanks

    I for one am grateful for the information shared here. I never got an exact location but a place to start. It has led to research and two very successful hunts in AK. My first was a 400 inch caribou and the second was a 62 inch moose. This was because I very blessed, lost if research, and help from this forum.

    Thanks Guys!!

  14. #14

    Default Specifics?

    Sorry, Brian.

    These cats are a little more savvy than you give them credit for. Like any other group of specialists, the membership here is both willing and proud to share good info, but unlikely to drop any closely-held, tip-top secrets.

    Glean what you will from the stories, but nobody here is handing out GPS coordinates.

    If I'm in error, will one of you gents/ladies please transmit me the coordinates of a monster Dall-- say, 38+ or so?

    Thanks!

    Chuck

  15. #15
    Member AKArcher's Avatar
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    Default To all of those who have contributed...

    Thanks for the info, no matter how exact the directions or instructions.

    Alaskanbrian,

    I know what you mean about the honey-hole being exploited, as a kid my secret spot was given away by a so called trusted friend. You found it...why should someone ruin it for you.

    If you did put forth the effort to find that spot, that hole, that meadow, then you have the knowledge/talent to find yet another spot that is "for you to use". You have a right to be a little pi**ed about your honey hole being listed here; but this forum like many others help those who may be helping young hunters/anglers grow a desire for our beloved sport.
    As a father, I don't want to take my children to a fishing hole and ZERO out their first time... good luck getting them to go again.

  16. #16
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Increased hunting pressure "fixes"

    Though I certainly understand your point, I don't think the answer to increased hunting pressure in Alaska (or anywhere else for that matter) lies in witholding information from hunters. It lies with good regulations and enforcement of those regulations.

    Permit areas are an excellent example.

    That said, it does rub a guy the wrong way when you share knowledge with someone, and they tip off their ten friends when they transfer out. I understand that, and think that if you've put a lot of work into figuring a place out, you better be careful what you do with the info. There are lots of "insider" secrets that are pretty good (some stink, too!). Most hunters who had to work for the info are pretty careful with that kind of detail.

    I think there's a middle ground in this.

    -Mike
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  17. #17
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    Default from a non-res perspective...

    ...I've made 1 trip to Alaska and am in the process of planning my 2nd. I think the info offered here is great and certainly appreciated but I think planning a trip from the lower 48 is still a daunting task. Look at a map. there are lakes and rivers everywhere. I can't recall any real specific locations given out on this forum. Again, I appreciate all the experience and insight.

  18. #18

    Default

    Alaska is vast and individuals want the best possible experience they can obtain, often a one shot deal. Specific locations are valuable information and should be shared. The internet has changed the world for sure, as that is what is all about "Sharing Information". More often than not, hunters will not return to a specific location. If more guided hunters shared info, individuals would no longer have to hire a guide for things like moose, caribou etc. Think about it, cheaper, affordable hunts. I will continue to share specific locations, that I know will offer the most rewarding experience and chance of bagging game, that I know of. Most of us know of these spots, and I think it is only right to share knowledge. That is the only way knowledge is passed on from generation to generation. Imagine a world where each generation has to learn all the lessons first hand. The result would be a very ignorant society. If you learn something valuable, it is your responsibility to pass it on. Get specific, that is valuable, saying read the book, or somewhere in the Alaska Range, you can find a sheep, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS.

  19. #19
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    Default I hear ya

    Brian this is a very sensitive subject for many, as you are obviously protective of your hunting areas as am I. However the bad thing is so many people move in and out of state (both military and civilian) and no longer feel the need to protect their secret areas that they discovered through hard work.And once they dont plan to use the area anymore they reveal it to anyone who asks. This is a tough one as there are so many factors that play a role in our ever increasing hunting pressure into limited access areas. Getting used to the crowds is just part of hunting in Alaska anymore. I wouldn't neccessarily say I have seen a lot of secret spots revealed on the forum and usually if an area is provided as advice its usually challenging by way of logistics to get to anyway. I'll give you an example that really erked me even though I had never hunted it. A fella made a video "600 miles by float" wont mention his name as many know him. But not a month after he started selling the video there were posts all over this forum and others on how to access the Sheenjak and Porcupine Rivers, questions like "Can I get my airboat up it?" and tons of other questions. That river has been there forever with only a few people figuring out the logistics to hunt that area and just because a guy makes a video, people must go there. Its amazing how little initiative so many hunters have and merely going where someone else went or goes is so much easier. Its frustrating for sure. I once had a great moose hunting area that was a MF'r to get into and it didn't take long after several years people started following the trails that I had made into this particular area and now 10 years later it looks like an Interstate system of trails in there. Dozens of camps lots of hunters, hey it is what it is, I just dont hunt there anymore. Just seem like you have to always be on the up and up looking for new hunting areas no matter how hard it is to get in there.
    Last edited by AlaskaCub; 06-03-2006 at 12:28.

  20. #20
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    Default Akres I disagree

    To reveal specific hunting locations on this forum is not just wrong but its also inconsiderate. You are not the only one that worked hard to find a particular area and I know many out there that have shared a hunting area each season with a familiar group or 2 of hunters and still maintained low hunting pressure and good success. Can you imagine having 2,3, or 4 new hunting groups just popping in there and saying they had a guy from the AOD hunting forum say this was a great place to hunt moose. I have helped many of guys with specific areas that they are inquiring about on this forum but I have done it by email or PM not in open forum. I also disagree with you perspective that this generation shouldn't have to relearn everything the last did, thats called maturity. This newer younger high tech gen of folks think everything in the world should be easily accessed via the internet while sitting in a comfortable chair. You cant learn things like Initiative, Motivation and a strong work ethic on the net sitting at home or work surfing hunting forums. Its something each person develops within themselves. I can assure you that my kids will not be raised with everything spoon fed to them. The greatest reward comes from the work you do in planning , the difficulties you overcome in the field, and the reward when you are successful. Its not about printing up a map off of MapQuest to a great moose hunting spot and shooting a 60" bull. Thats my $.02, sorry. How is it so many have killed rams in the Alaska range without the AOD hunting forum giving them specific directions. Get in your truck, pull out a map, drive to visible access off of road systems, hike in and see what the areas offer, check the F&G regs and determine legal means of access(can you ride a 4wheeler in), charter a plane for a couple hours and fly an area, its called research. No one should tell you exactly what drainage to go to and how to get there. Thats the laziest attitude there is, that someone should just tell you specifically where to hunt legal rams. If thats what you want drop $10K and it will work just like you'd like.
    Last edited by AlaskaCub; 06-03-2006 at 12:42.

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