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Thread: The follow up shot

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    Default The follow up shot

    So, after reading the thread by 323 (http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...est-of-caribou), I started to wonder about when to take up a follow up shot in support of a hunting partner.

    For the sake of argument lets say your hunting buddy draws Dall sheep tag, and you go along to support. After a your buddy takes the first shot the ram moves a little, looking a little dazed. Because the ram moved, your buddy no longer has a clear shot, but you do. You're confident that the first shot was a hit. So you take the shot before a wounded animal gets away. Once you reach the animal and start the field care you notice that there is only one hole, from your follow up shot.

    So, when do you follow up in support of a hunting partner? How much evidence do you need of a hit, before you would be willing to help finish off another's animal?

    Perhaps this is a question better suited for the Ask a Trooper Forum, but I was curious what others felt about follow up shots.
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    Unless its going to attack us, I leave the shooting to the guy who has arrived to do so, from start to finish. Might hand 'em my rifle if he needs, but he's the dude to pull the trigger, not me. That Buddie best get where I am pronto, if he needs a second shot, as I'll gladly keep 'em in sight till he does.

    Im there ,in this senario, to do as any Guide or Wife (my Wife assists me in 'Back up', camping, cooking, cleaning, packing, spotting, skinning, butchering, mechanics, ect.) would do and be there to help the Hunter, not shoot for 'em.
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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagonyonok View Post
    So, after reading the thread by 323 (http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...est-of-caribou), I started to wonder about when to take up a follow up shot in support of a hunting partner.

    For the sake of argument lets say your hunting buddy draws Dall sheep tag, and you go along to support. After a your buddy takes the first shot the ram moves a little, looking a little dazed. Because the ram moved, your buddy no longer has a clear shot, but you do. You're confident that the first shot was a hit. So you take the shot before a wounded animal gets away. Once you reach the animal and start the field care you notice that there is only one hole, from your follow up shot.

    So, when do you follow up in support of a hunting partner? How much evidence do you need of a hit, before you would be willing to help finish off another's animal?

    Perhaps this is a question better suited for the Ask a Trooper Forum, but I was curious what others felt about follow up shots.
    I am just amazed that you managed to shoot it in the exact same hole that your buddy did! One in a million shot I tell ya, one in a million........

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    Default Back up shooting

    [QUOTE=Yagonyonok;841137]So, after reading the thread by 323 (http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...est-of-caribou), I started to wonder about when to take up a follow up shot in support of a hunting partner.

    So, when do you follow up in support of a hunting partner?

    Here is a link to a great thread about the question you asked.http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...Big-Game-in-AK

    After watching Jim Shockey back up shoot for his wife were it looked like she missed me and ol' hunt&fishak had dissagreed on the subject so he asked all of you how you felt about the subject.It was a very interesting topic.

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    If he drew the tag and you didn't, you have no business carrying a gun along, let alone shooting. You can help him spot, track, clean, pack and eat, but you can't shoot.
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    Member roughneck6883's Avatar
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    I dont know legally but if I shot an animal and KNEW it was hit bad I would hope my buddy would put it down if he had the only shot,but if I am able to fire an effective shot he should stay his rifle. but I dont want an animal getting away from me worse than how I found it........ and if that can be prevented by my buddy fixing the situation because of my poor exicution then so be it.

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    Why don't you run that by a trooper on the ask a trooper thread. In fact, on the Illegal Caribou thread, seems the same thing happened on a caribou and the three guys involved got a ticket.
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    I actually PM'd the trooper a similar question today. Maybe they'll answer it.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    If he drew the tag and you didn't, you have no business carrying a gun along, let alone shooting. You can help him spot, track, clean, pack and eat, but you can't shoot.
    I'm not so sure about that. It's pretty common practice for guides to take follow-up shots on client animals, particularly on brown bears. The guide is generally not a tag holder (in places such as Kodiak) and in some cases aren't even residents who could legally hunt brown bears on their own without hiring a guide, but they still carry a gun and take follow up shots as needed. I'm not sure what the law says about it, but it's no secret that guides shoot sometimes, so I'd assume there must be a provision for it somehow.

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    That was my thought on reading that other thread,

    Assuming one of those guys DID have a tag, right, (wasn't really clear) if so what was wrong with that picture?

    Seems like nobody SHOULD have a rifle except the guy with the Tag, but that's not reality, Bear Country and all, SO,

    What's up with prosecuting the guy who takes the animal down, if there is a tag along?
    Of course, it sure did seem there was something to hide in that party so ????? What's the real story,

    Ask A Trooper, "How about partners taking back up shots, to get the animal on the grass, seems like a common practice for party hunters.

    Good Question

    I like LJ's answer, "The Exact Same Hole, Wow"
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    I believe it is illegal to shoot an animal without a tag unless it is in the defense of self or property. In most circles they call this party hunting anyway you look at it. I am sure that a buddy shot on a bear would be overlooked because of the danger of a wounded bear; I don't think that would apply on a sheep or caribou.
    Myself I do my own shooting and if I can't get a good shoot then I wait until I can or I pass on it.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I will continue to stand buy ready to dispatch a wounded animal if necessary. I always "spot" for my hunting partner and will shoot if it is needed, I am simply not going to allow a wounded animal to potentially escape and go to waste. In fact I have wasted my only tag on a nasty gut shot caribou cow before. I saw it running by and it had clearly been shot. Morally I couldn't allow it to suffer so I sent a barnes x through it's heart. I will admit that I didn't clip my tag right away and stopped several times while butchering to glass and see if the owner of the animal was tracking it down to claim it. When it was clear that the guy who had drawn first blood (gut shot through the front of both back legs) was not in pursuit I punched my tag and took home meat that wasn't fit for a dog. I do not believe in volley shooting on anything except a flock of ducks and much prefer that my partner goes completely solo on the shooting.

    I have not needed to back anyone up so far thankfully but have come close. I was hunting bou with my dad and his work buddy. I spotted a small herd sitting on a snow patch trying to escape the bugs and heat. They were on the north slope of a mountain and the sun had just dropped behind it which prompted the herd to get up. There was a big cow in the group and she started working her way down the slope toward us. We were able to get in a good concealed position to wait and she continued to advance. My dads bud was a rookie but had supplied a lot of the gear so we gave him first shot. I am set to back him up and let him know that he can take it when it turns and he is ready. Finally at maybe 40 yards the guy decides to center punch it head on in the brisket. Sure enough he is off to the right and sends a 220 partition directly into the shoulder bone. Nothing vital was hit but the animal and the poor thing starts spinning with it's leg flopping around. It had to do 8 or 10 rodeo spins and the whole time I am saying "shoot again, shoot again" and waiting for the rifle report. Finally I said sternly 'SHOOT IT NOW OR I WILL!!" Right then it paused and he pulled the trigger. The second round hit it dead in the boiler and took it down like a wrecking ball. The whole thing probably took under 30 seconds but I still question my decision. Had I known that he was going to be as slow as he was on the followup shot I think I would have ended it for him.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagonyonok View Post
    So, after reading the thread by 323 (http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...est-of-caribou), I started to wonder about when to take up a follow up shot in support of a hunting partner.

    For the sake of argument lets say your hunting buddy draws Dall sheep tag, and you go along to support. After a your buddy takes the first shot the ram moves a little, looking a little dazed. Because the ram moved, your buddy no longer has a clear shot, but you do. You're confident that the first shot was a hit. So you take the shot before a wounded animal gets away. Once you reach the animal and start the field care you notice that there is only one hole, from your follow up shot.

    So, when do you follow up in support of a hunting partner? How much evidence do you need of a hit, before you would be willing to help finish off another's animal?

    Perhaps this is a question better suited for the Ask a Trooper Forum, but I was curious what others felt about follow up shots.
    Unless there was caribou or something else to hunt I probably wouldn't even bother brining a rifle to help out with packing on a dall sheep hunt. One rifle for the one permit holder is plenty. No sense in lugging an extra 6-8 pounds around and having it get hung up in the brush.

    Seriously though I would be interested to know how this question would be answered. If both have a tag for a given species I really don't see where this would be an issue at all. Where it would get tricky is when hunting say Kodiak Brown Bears and only one tag between two guys going on the hunt. I feel common sense would say that once a given animal is hit and still moving away or even worse charging you that both parties would get involved in ensuring the most humane death possible. However as often the case common sense and the law do not mingle all that frequently.

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    Member Ernie Scar's Avatar
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    So let me get this right, a few threads back everyone here agreed that they were all one shot, one kill, one hit wonders, no need to carry an extra round into the field, harvesters of the highest ethics, only taking the shot when true sudden death was the only option, bonified keyboard warriors, legends in our own mind (all except TlingitWarrior who admitted he was amongst greatness and was a schmuck but in my opinion the only guy not full of s**t). And now we're trying to decide whether or not to shoot our buddies wounded animal. BWAAAAHHHHAAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I can't believe w/ so many bad*****es here why everyone hunts w/ a "schmuck!!! AAAAHHHHAHAHAHAHA!!! This really made my morning, permagrin the rest of the day. Thanks everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. It's pretty common practice for guides to take follow-up shots on client animals, particularly on brown bears. The guide is generally not a tag holder (in places such as Kodiak) and in some cases aren't even residents who could legally hunt brown bears on their own without hiring a guide, but they still carry a gun and take follow up shots as needed. I'm not sure what the law says about it, but it's no secret that guides shoot sometimes, so I'd assume there must be a provision for it somehow.

    12 AAC 75.340. PROFESSIONAL ETHICS STANDARDS FOR GUIDES.
    "...(d) Field craft standards. All classes of guides shall
    (1) use every lawful means at the licensee’s disposal to bag a wounded animal while it is in danger of
    escaping, or, in a serious emergency, while human life or well-being is endangered;..."
    Joe

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    when i was guiding (and even when i took my boy for bear) my stared policy was "i will not back you up unless 1) you ask me to; or 2) if i deem it prudent in order to not lose the animal.
    most bear guides i know would have the client shoot, then both keep shooting until the animal was down.
    as far as legality, my understanding is that once the hunter has drawn blood, that animal is his, and a follow-up shot is perfectly legal AS LONG AS BLOOD HAS BEEN DRAWN.
    as to how you can tell... well, you just better be sure.
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    ok, before the mob gets here, this is truely just a hypothetical, for coversation/education situation. I knew that with a kodiak tag it would be a obvious answer to s\hoot before you have a wounded angery bear waiting for you in the alders.

    I will have to read the other thread a little later today.

    I'm with the posters who say that if the animal is wounded and about to be lost, and the origial shooter has commucated that he has no shot, I would not think twice about finishing off an animal as quickly as possible. The real conundrum would be when you notice that there is only one hole. Do you tur yourself in? Or pretend that your buddy made the good shot, and your shot missed, but scared the animal eough to kill it o the spot.

    Joe, thanks for finding the exact spot in the code to answer the question.
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    Myself I do my own shooting and if I can't get a good shoot then I wait until I can or I pass on it.[/QUOTE]

    suppose by an act of god you had a good shot and it turned out bad, say a gut shot moose, and it was about to slip out of sight and you had no shot you would let it get away with a hole in his guts rather than let your buddy put it down if he has the shot?

    My point is that everybody looks for the good shot but if you hunt long enough you will have a bad shot and sometimes the animal can get a way I have been in the woods at 2 am pitch black helping my buddy look for a gut shot elk he never found it and he looked for 4 days and I would do what ever I can to not have this happen to me even if I had to ask for a little help .......and this guy was a good shot and waited for the good shot but it just didnt work out

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Finally at maybe 40 yards the guy decides to center punch it head on in the brisket. Sure enough he is off to the right and sends a 220 partition directly into the shoulder bone. Nothing vital was hit but the animal and the poor thing starts spinning with it's leg flopping around. It had to do 8 or 10 rodeo spins and the whole time I am saying "shoot again, shoot again" and waiting for the rifle report. Finally I said sternly 'SHOOT IT NOW OR I WILL!!" Right then it paused and he pulled the trigger. The second round hit it dead in the boiler and took it down like a wrecking ball. The whole thing probably took under 30 seconds but I still question my decision. Had I known that he was going to be as slow as he was on the followup shot I think I would have ended it for him.
    So you were encouraging him to take another bad shot, with the animal spinning? Most likely to end up with another bad hit? Not only encouraging him, but more than likely distracting him with your yelling? And he waited til the animal stopped spinning and made a good shot? I'd say that guy has better nerves than most and did a heck of a job. And you wanted to start blasting away at a spinning animal? And you were the experienced hunter?

    This is part of the problem with party hunting is guys make other guys anxious and they just start blasting away. But if you had a tag, at least it was legal.

    Some guys just want to pull the trigger and they look for excuses. Taking a gun along when you don't have the tag is looking for trouble. If you want to actually help the guy, encourage him to take his time and make the first shot count, instead of making him feel like you're going to pull the trigger at the slightest excuse. It could be that looking over his shoulder is going to rush him into a bad shot.

    As a side note, I know a couple guys who went hunting together, both with tags, and the first guy shot and killed an animal. The second guy continued hunting and hit an animal that went down, but then got up and he shot twice more to finish it off. A third animal was with the second animal and it ran off. As the second hunter went to take care of his animal, he heard a shot. After his animal was taken care of, the second hunter went to find the first hunter figuring the shot was a signal shot, but found the first hunter with the third animal dead at his feet. And this was a species that had a bag limit of one. The first hunter said, when I heard you shoot more than once, I figured you wounded one, so when this animal came by I figured I'd better finish it off. How do you think that went over?
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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    I have a video at home of hunting SE blackies. The guides' client is an older gentleman who completely misses the big boar. Another round is immediately fired and the bear hit. Next thing you see is the guide picking up his spent cartridge on the ground. Fine and dandy - but it is on a video that they sell to the public....

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