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Thread: Hatchers soon to loose snowmachine access! Not to late to stop the BS.

  1. #1

    Default Hatchers soon to loose snowmachine access! Not to late to stop the BS.

    Hello All,

    Here's a letter just received from our non-motorized friendly folks at DNR. Riders are about to lose access in Hatchers pass. I've attached a link to the map showing what areas will be closed off. Thankfully the current commission that has signed this is on the way out and a new commission on the way in. Commissioner Irwin was a wack job and has taken access away from Alaskans and this is another example. Maybe if the new commissioner, Dan Sullivan, gets enough appeals he'll reverse the decision and make DNR go back to the drawing board. They ignored all of the motorized access request that AOAA and AOC asked for and the hundreds of letters sent to them from individuals. DNR has been invaded by folks with an anti-motorized agenda and it's time to fight back. If you agree, send a letter of appeal and ask your friends to do the same. The entire state is open to anyone who wants to walk, crawl, run, bike, ski, etc. They just don't want you doing the same on your motorized vehicle.

    They must answer every appeal so at least inundate them so they at have to complete tons of paperwork if they continue to move forward with this.

    Here's the letter and a map link. PLEASE pass this on to those you think need to know.

    "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

    Dear Alaskan,

    The Commissioner of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) adopted the Hatcher Pass Management Plan on November 17, 2010. The Land Classification Order No. SC-09-003 and Mineral Closing Order No. 1107, which implement the plan, have also been adopted.

    The 2010 Hatcher Pass Management Plan affects 294, 919 acres of state land and provides the basis for state land and resource management in the Hatcher Pass area. It primarily deals with recreation and mining, which are the principal uses of the area. It is a revision of the 1986 management plan and the result of a two year planning and public participation process and multi-agency coordination.

    The final plan consists of the Public Review Draft (PRD), which was distributed in March 2010, and a list of Approved Revisions to the PRD. The list of Approved Revisions is derived from the Issue Response Summary, which is a document that addresses all of the issues identified through public and agency comments and provides recommendations for revisions to the plan where appropriate. Only the recommended revisions are contained in the list of Approved Revisions. The PRD, Issue Response Summary and Approved Revisions are attached to this email. They are also available electronically on the DNR webpage at: http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/planning. If you would like a paper copy, please submit your request via email at: dnr.mlw.hpmp@alaska.gov or call: (907)269-8534 for further information.

    A 20 day period is being provided for reconsideration of the Commissionerís decision beginning on December 9, 2010.

    A person affected by the decision to adopt the Hatcher Pass Management Plan, Land Classification Order No. SC-09-003, and Mineral Closing Order No. 1107, may request reconsideration, in accordance with 11 AAC 02. Requests for reconsideration of this decision are due by 5:00 PM on December 28, 2010. The request may be mailed or delivered to Dan Sullivan, Commissioner, Department of Natural Resources, 550 W. 7th Avenue, Suite 1400, Anchorage, Alaska 99501; faxed to 1-907-269-8918; or sent by electronic mail to dnr.appeals@alaska.gov. If reconsideration is not requested by that date or if the commissioner does not order reconsideration on his own motion, this decision goes into effect as a final order and decision on January 7, 2011.

    Failure of the commissioner to act on a request for reconsideration within 30 days after issuance of this decision is a denial of reconsideration and is a final administrative order and decision for purposes of an appeal to Superior Court. The decision may then be appealed to Superior Court within a further 30 days in accordance with the rules of the court, and to the extent permitted by applicable law. An eligible person must first request reconsideration of this decision in accordance with 11 AAC 02 before appealing this decision to Superior Court. A copy of 11 AAC 02 may be obtained from any regional information office of the Department of Natural Resources.


    Philana Miles

    Philana Miles
    Land Use Planner
    State of Alaska Department of Natural Resources
    Division of Mining, Land & Water
    Resource Assessment & Development Section
    550 W. 7th Ave., Ste. 1050
    Anchorage, AK 99515
    Phone: (907)269-8529
    Fax: (907)269-8915

  2. #2
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this. I took the 5 minutes and emailed a letter. I hope you guys take the time also. When was the last time a new spot got opened up for motorized use? Or the last time a place got closed to motors then it was reopened to them?

    I dont even ride there, but its time to stop the BS> All these DNR and State park people are a bunch of anti-motor nazis

  3. #3
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I reviewed the map, what I don't know is what areas are we losing? Most of the areas that I saw are the same as how I understood them to be currently. I know it may be a lot to ask but can someone either post a link to the old map or perhaps do a little MS Paint work on the new one and annotate the changes? I am always ready to fight but I don't yet know what we are fighting. I did see some new parking areas on the map which looked like they would be nice....

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    Member Rich_in_AK's Avatar
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    Matt, your email probably got discarded on receipt since they are not taking any responses til December 9th !

    Leave it to a beurocrat to make things difficult for people.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I reviewed the map, what I don't know is what areas are we losing? Most of the areas that I saw are the same as how I understood them to be currently. I know it may be a lot to ask but can someone either post a link to the old map or perhaps do a little MS Paint work on the new one and annotate the changes? I am always ready to fight but I don't yet know what we are fighting. I did see some new parking areas on the map which looked like they would be nice....
    Correct me if I'm wrong but you use to be able to park an the lower motherload parking area and ride up to hatcher's pass road. It's all in the non motorized year round area now. Also you use to be able to ride the valley back into Reed Lakes, correct? We had asked for an East West corridor and a corridor from town. They've essential made much of the area non accessible by blocking off the road accessible launching areas. You'll have to come on in the west side to get to anything.

  6. #6
    Member Rick P's Avatar
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    The closed areas haven't changed. This is simply a reaproval of exisiting regs spun by motorised folks to be a "new clousure". Yes you can ride from the motherload parking area, on the trail only. No the reed lakes have been off limits as long as I have been using the area. You can however head further up the access trail to the end of the raod and beyound. Guys look at the map! The area off limits to us is the tourist and skiing section, are we really so self centered we cant let the other 90% of the folks who own the land have one little section to ski and get away from our noise!
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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    There are only a few things I see on that map that were any sort of a surprise. The borough land that is off limits year round along edgerton parks road/gov peak. The non motorized zone on top of Baldy that cuts that RS trail in half and the trail heading north from the willow side that for some reason is 98% open but ends up dipping into a no ATV area in a couple places. I have not been to those areas of either trail but it looks weird on a map. Why not open access along the extent of the trail instead of it being ok on the front and back but against the rules in the middle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick P View Post
    Guys look at the map! The area off limits to us is the tourist and skiing section, are we really so self centered we cant let the other 90% of the folks who own the land have one little section to ski and get away from our noise!
    A little section are you kidding!!!! They have 100% of Alaska 365 days a year there is no where they canít goÖ
    Every time we ask for a area to ride to keep from being harass they want it close. Name one area that a skier can not go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    A little section are you kidding!!!! They have 100% of Alaska 365 days a year there is no where they canít goÖ
    Every time we ask for a area to ride to keep from being harass they want it close. Name one area that a skier can not go.

    Dude, chill man, did you read what Rick wrote? " This is simply a reaproval of exisiting regs spun by motorised folks to be a "new clousure". No the reed lakes have been off limits as long as I have been using the area."

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    Every time a snowmobile area comes up to be renew, skiers want it shut down or make the snowmobilers have access every other year, but the skiers have access every year with no restrictions. How fair is that?
    So donít tell me to chill out.

    Iím not mad at you or Rick P just the attitude of they have no ware to go. In fact there is no where they canít go.

  11. #11
    Member Lake creek fishermen's Avatar
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    Hatchers isnt even that fun to ride, When we even think about going, We end up just climbing Mt baldy and riding up there
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  12. #12
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    and again more user groups at each other...

    Mel.. I am going to do a little self educating, before i jump in or not.. but i will bring this up this week up here for input.. thanks
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  13. #13

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    [QUOTE=Halibutgrove;840803]Hello All,

    Here's a letter just received from our non-motorized friendly folks at DNR. Riders are about to lose access in Hatchers pass. I've attached a link to the map showing what areas will be closed off. Thankfully the current commission that has signed this is on the way out and a new commission on the way in. Commissioner Irwin was a wack job and has taken access away from Alaskans and this is another example. Maybe if the new commissioner, Dan Sullivan, gets enough appeals he'll reverse the decision and make DNR go back to the drawing board. They ignored all of the motorized access request that AOAA and AOC asked for and the hundreds of letters sent to them from individuals. DNR has been invaded by folks with an anti-motorized agenda and it's time to fight back. If you agree, send a letter of appeal and ask your friends to do the same. The entire state is open to anyone who wants to walk, crawl, run, bike, ski, etc. They just don't want you doing the same on your motorized vehicle.

    They must answer every appeal so at least inundate them so they at have to complete tons of paperwork if they continue to move forward with this.

    Here's the letter and a map link. PLEASE pass this on to those you think need to know.

    "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

    Dear Alaskan,

    The Commissioner of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) adopted the Hatcher Pass Management Plan on November 17, 2010. The Land Classification Order No. SC-09-003 and Mineral Closing Order No. 1107, which implement the plan, have also been adopted.

    The 2010 Hatcher Pass Management Plan affects 294, 919 acres of state land and provides the basis for state land and resource management in the Hatcher Pass area. It primarily deals with recreation and mining, which are the principal uses of the area. It is a revision of the 1986 management plan and the result of a two year planning and public participation process and multi-agency coordination.

    The final plan consists of the Public Review Draft (PRD), which was distributed in March 2010, and a list of Approved Revisions to the PRD. The list of Approved Revisions is derived from the Issue Response Summary, which is a document that addresses all of the issues identified through public and agency comments and provides recommendations for revisions to the plan where appropriate. Only the recommended revisions are contained in the list of Approved Revisions. The PRD, Issue Response Summary and Approved Revisions are attached to this email. They are also available electronically on the DNR webpage at: http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/planning. If you would like a paper copy, please submit your request via email at: dnr.mlw.hpmp@alaska.gov or call: (907)269-8534 for further information.

    A 20 day period is being provided for reconsideration of the Commissionerís decision beginning on December 9, 2010.

    A person affected by the decision to adopt the Hatcher Pass Management Plan, Land Classification Order No. SC-09-003, and Mineral Closing Order No. 1107, may request reconsideration, in accordance with 11 AAC 02. Requests for reconsideration of this decision are due by 5:00 PM on December 28, 2010. The request may be mailed or delivered to Dan Sullivan, Commissioner, Department of Natural Resources, 550 W. 7th Avenue, Suite 1400, Anchorage, Alaska 99501; faxed to 1-907-269-8918; or sent by electronic mail to dnr.appeals@alaska.gov. If reconsideration is not requested by that date or if the commissioner does not order reconsideration on his own motion, this decision goes into effect as a final order and decision on January 7, 2011.

    Failure of the commissioner to act on a request for reconsideration within 30 days after issuance of this decision is a denial of reconsideration and is a final administrative order and decision for purposes of an appeal to Superior Court. The decision may then be appealed to Superior Court within a further 30 days in accordance with the rules of the court, and to the extent permitted by applicable law. An eligible person must first request reconsideration of this decision in accordance with 11 AAC 02 before appealing this decision to Superior Court. A copy of 11 AAC 02 may be obtained from any regional information office of the Department of Natural Resources.


    HG- spinning the facts again. As stated earlier, not much is changing here. We're not "losing" access. Basically some want to "gain" a more convenient access to ride hatcher's without actually driving up there. The proposed additions are very close to many residents in the area and skier's, sledders etc. I know I'm safe, but I've seen how some ride, and it's just asking for an accident. It's like riding a machine through a playground. There's a reason that the machines aren't allowed in certain areas. It's a balance. High speed machines can do some serious damage. When a person gets hit by a car, the car always wins. There's tons of places to ride, it seems crazy to wine about not getting an even easier access to something so close to wasilla/palmer town. Just how I feel, and I don't even ski. And- I certainly hate regulations, but I don't think most are aware of what you're encouraging them to do.

  14. #14
    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    dont make no difference to me, i ride in all the closed down areas anyhow, i get a kick outa it.
    Semper Fi!

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I would like to see an access corridor w/ posted speeds set up down to the Motherlode but that is about it. That lodge (if it is still in business) could really use the added support. I think a singe access lane could probably be productive but anything beyond that would be like opening up Alyeska to sleds. I don't like regulations but I have been snowboarding that area since the late 80's and having an area where I can stop worrying about getting run over by some kid on a ski-doo is worth it. I look at the rest of the pass as "out of bounds" and board at my own risk, usually off the back of a sled in fact. I don't like some things on that map, namely the Baldy closed area, the Gov peak borough land that is closed, and the trail headed north from the willow side that threads through inexplicably closed areas. Reed lake, 16 mile and the cat trail areas though, that is pretty reasonable. One is historically a XC area and the other is the focal point for the Ski and snowboard crowd.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I would like to see an access corridor w/ posted speeds set up down to the Motherlode but that is about it. That lodge (if it is still in business) could really use the added support. I think a singe access lane could probably be productive but anything beyond that would be like opening up Alyeska to sleds. I don't like regulations but I have been snowboarding that area since the late 80's and having an area where I can stop worrying about getting run over by some kid on a ski-doo is worth it. I look at the rest of the pass as "out of bounds" and board at my own risk, usually off the back of a sled in fact. I don't like some things on that map, namely the Baldy closed area, the Gov peak borough land that is closed, and the trail headed north from the willow side that threads through inexplicably closed areas. Reed lake, 16 mile and the cat trail areas though, that is pretty reasonable. One is historically a XC area and the other is the focal point for the Ski and snowboard crowd.
    There will be a discussion at the monthly AOAA meeting next Monday at the Eagle River VFW. Meeting starts at 6:30pm. A presentation on losses/gains will be provided. There's plenty of tweaking this plan needs before allowed to go final.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    There will be a discussion at the monthly AOAA meeting next Monday at the Eagle River VFW. Meeting starts at 6:30pm. A presentation on losses/gains will be provided. There's plenty of tweaking this plan needs before allowed to go final.
    Thx, I will definitely not be there.

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    Hatcher Pass is NOT a PARK. There is a park near the old buildings, but that is it. If you moderators believe the closures that were thought to exist were ever legal... it is time you do get some education. As areas get chipped away from motorized use by the folks that contol our money for snow track and the gas tax money, we all lose. More and more areas are getting closed by the feds, leaving only the state land to recreate on. Once the state land gets closed, there won't be any more to open. You may think...no big deal...unitl they close the west side too.

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