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Thread: how far have you slid on ice?

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Smile how far have you slid on ice?

    I got to have near the record of sliding in a airplane on ice and snow. My guess is around 8000' and sideways at one point. Cleveland, OH in a nasty snow storm in a DC9, what a ride. Anybody else?,

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    New Image.jpgWell not as scary as 8000 ft in a DC-9, this little 100+ ft slide sure had us excited. What you can't see in the pic is a KC-10 off the nose whose crew was really excited to see us slide toward them too.

    Slow reversers and turbine lag sure make things more puckering when you need them really quick.

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    Never did the big iron, but used up more than 1-mile on smoothly frozen Lake Iliamna while landing my ski-equipped Super Cub. Trying to land at Ted and Mary's Iliaska Lodge, but there wasn't a single snowflake on the whole danged lake! Tried everything, including sliding sideways. Finally, FINALLY got the little thing stopped by sliding up on the gravel beach.

    HAPPY THANKSGIVING, EVERYONE !!!!!

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    my buddy George tells a story of landing in Nanwalic(?) and the rwy was ice covered. About 1200 foot strip, he got it turned 180 deg's and added full power when that happened and he stopped. He called me right after and told me and said he always wanted to see if that would work, it does apparently!

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    On a strip? I have a hard time believing that. I've tried to do the 180* spin-and-stop on slick ice. It isn't nearly as easy as one would think. In fact it's nearly impossible until you're going so slow it doesn't matter any more. I'd like to see somebody demonstrate it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Rudder, power, what else is there?

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    Did the 180 with the cub 20mph tailwind glare ice on a lake. Was running out of lake and had no other options i was on skis. Added power and full rudder, slidding sideways in a cub is not a good feeling, made it and so did my gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    On a strip? I have a hard time believing that. I've tried to do the 180* spin-and-stop on slick ice. It isn't nearly as easy as one would think. In fact it's nearly impossible until you're going so slow it doesn't matter any more. I'd like to see somebody demonstrate it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Rudder, power, what else is there?
    A lone standing dead spruce pole, will spin a 185, if you whack it with the landing light of the right wing. Stop you to.
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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Default its a strip

    Mr.Pid, Nanwalek is a strip,unattended rwy 1=19 north 1000' closed indef,remaining 850' softrut and 4" rocks on soft surface, the alaska sup goes on to say village on one end and a mountain on the other, ends and edges not marked due to freq high winds and water errosion. The errosion is wave washing over the rwy as it right on the shore of the Cook inlet. As I was told the rwy looked clear as he could see gravel, but it was coated with ice from waves washing over the rwy. When my best friend who has around 18,000 hours tells me something, I beleive him.

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Algonguin:
    You forgot to mention that Nanwalek (Used to be English Bay until the locals thought that Nanwalek sounded more native),,
    Almost always has a cross-wind from either the ocean or the valley. Plus it is dog-leg crooked, with a village at one end and the lagoon entrance at the other.. Oh yeah the lagoon entrance is only about 100 feet wide with a big flippin cliff and mountain on the other side. And the winter surface is often wet glare ice with grapefruit side rocks scattered all over from the last high tide or surf wind storm.
    I have seen a couple folks do the reverse power turn over there. It is harder in a nose wheel because of the CG, but it can be done with a cross wind helping and bouncing off the right rocks and dirty spots. It is real easy in a tail dragger since the CG is aft of the mains.
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    Easy? Make a YouTube video and show me. Without traction I haven't been able to do it. With traction I have no desire to do it.

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    Heck tail wheel students do every now and then by accident... Ground loop....
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    Yep, with traction either by not tracking straight or by improper use of brakes and/or rudder. We're talking about slick surfaces. I've heard the stories and lilt Tony's story found myself needing to do it. I couldn't get past sideways. I tried again on a wind swept lake and couldn't get past sideways. I haven't been able to spin it around like the stories say. I want to see somebody do it.

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    My first thoughts when I read the thread starter was in what direction!!!...But seems to be a good debate about poor mans reverse...I for one will pass on that test flight for now...I think I will go have another piece of pumpkin pie...Happy Thanksgiving to all

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    I have done it in a Super Cub, on a frozen lake with some light powder snow on top (Anderson lake between Palmer and Wasilla.), but the speeds were very slow by the time I spun the tail around. Like jogging or walking pace. Anything faster and the tail would not swing around more than 80 degrees or so. My oldest son, who is now in his mid 30s was in 6th or 7th grade back then and I kept whipping the tail around until he barfed in the back seat.

    Also did it once on the Ninchik runway in a 1958 C-172. It was wet ice with some occasional patches of rocks or gravel exposed. But once again we were down to a very slow speed and we (Jay Collins and I ) just needed to keep from sliding all the way off the end. So we bounced the mains off a couple exposed rocks on one side and then used rudder, brake, low aileron and power to get the rotation motion going. Just a burst of power to start then no power until the nose is pointed close to the right direction.

    I tired it once while landing on a frozen lake with floats. IT DID NOT WORK> There was maybe an inch or two of snow over the ice. It was like being on a giant set of ice skates and we could not turn at all. . We had to get out and hand-handle the plane around so we could take-off again.

    On the Nanwalek runway mentioned above, guys like George (who is an outstanding pilot) might use the prevailing 20 + knot crosswind to start the nose turn (weathervaning) and then let inertia do the rest. They are usually trying to turn around at the village end because of the weird pipe cover thing that sticks out of the ground in front of the cargo lean-to. The wave action at high tides at Nanwalek usually litters the ice with enough rocks and gravel that the ice is not as bad as it could be. The two ends are more watery and icy for some reason.
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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Float Pilot, I won't land there, I just don't feel I have the skill level. everytime I have been there I've been with George or one of the other guys that are skilled at it. Spooky to fly down a street and plunk it down or land in a turn and try to miss that darned cuvert thing.
    PS they didn't change the name on the marine chart, I always chuckle at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    On a strip? I have a hard time believing that. I've tried to do the 180* spin-and-stop on slick ice. It isn't nearly as easy as one would think. In fact it's nearly impossible until you're going so slow it doesn't matter any more. I'd like to see somebody demonstrate it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Rudder, power, what else is there?
    Yeah - - -- - it certainly didn't work for me at Iliamna!

  17. #17

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    Getting past sideways was more power and that increased my speed to the point of O crap! If i would of hit anything other than smooth ice my gear would of went.

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    Yeah, it would never work if you have much forward speed or a headwind of any significance. Maybe a tailwind of x-wind. Plus I cannot see how it would work without something like patches of sand or rough snow for some braking action on one tire. The couple occasions I got it to work was only because of snow, rocks or gravel in the right places and it was so slow it was really a taxi maneuver and not a landing manuever.
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  19. #19

    Default Here you go

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    Easy? Make a YouTube video and show me. Without traction I haven't been able to do it. With traction I have no desire to do it.
    Monsieur Pid,
    You asked and here it is:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhBXL7DC9X0

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    Good example. It proves the point. Lots of lateral travel. By the time it gets around there's very little forward speed. I'm familiar with the shape of that landing because I've done several. But not on a strip. Not the same as "spin it around" to stop with thrust. At least not the same in my mind. And I accept that Paul's the best so that's probably as good as it gets.

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