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Thread: Ask the Grizzly/Brown Bear Bear Guides

  1. #1

    Unhappy Ask the Grizzly/Brown Bear Bear Guides

    An interesting book by J.Y.Jones. Just finished rereading parts of the book - some good information - but - would first buy "Floating" by Stahan and/or Batin's Hunting Alaska.
    Certainly some good information - but - favorite quote so far from the book "...On Monday he didn't even have a guiding licenses, and on Friday he was a guide!..."!
    Some things never change.

  2. #2
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    boom......
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    There is a thread in that vein in the shooting section under hand loads for 338.I know some good young guides that were assistant guides five years before being signed off on to take the test to move up.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    hmmmm.......

  5. #5

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    Joe,
    Not exactly sure what you are getting at. I think you are implying that the Qualifications for a guide license should require more experience. If that is the case, I would not argue that point. On the other hand, I have been actively guiding here in Alaska for 35 years now, and I have to say that in the various camps I have worked in I have met many young, relatively inexperienced guides with a lot of savvy who under certain circumstances would probably be better suited to guide a particular hunter than me.
    Please don't get me wrong, If I were to hire a guide for a kodiak bear hunt you would be my choice since Bill and Morris are out of the picture. But some hunters might prefer a young aggressive guide with the knowledge of how to hunt and judge bears. Furthermore, hunting is a constant learning experience. There is no doubt that someone with your experience is an encyclopedia of bear hunting knowledge. But I really believe that you give a fellow 4 or 5 seasons with 8 or 10 hunts under his belt under a good bear hunter he will have what it takes to give a client a good hunt. That is of course if he has what any good guide has, the desire and determination to give 100% focus and effort to achieve success and most of all a satisfied client

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Joe,
    "... But I really believe that you give a fellow 4 or 5 seasons with 8 or 10 hunts under his belt under a good bear hunter he will have what it takes to give a client a good hunt. That is of course if he has what any good guide has, the desire and determination to give 100% focus and effort to achieve success and most of all a satisfied client."
    I don't think it can be said any better then you just have. The time spent under the direct supervision of some that knows well their profession is important if one expects to maximize what they learn from experience during their guiding career.
    The bottom line to learning from experience is a sound foundation in the process and not necessarily the number of "kills". It is not by "chance" that a proponderance of those guides on Kodiak Island averaging over 26 on males have been strongly associated with one guiding service. (That average is based on a minimum sample size of twelve).
    A series guiding workshops/clinics are being scheduled for the spring BGCSB meeting in Fairbanks - will be interesting to see the level of participation. Hopefully the topics will include subjects such as judging the size of bears and other aspects of guiding. Will be interesting - given some of the postings by guides on this forum to see which ones make presentations.
    Again - I appreciate and certainly agree with most of your post.
    Joe

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Certainly some good information - but - favorite quote so far from the book "...On Monday he didn't even have a guiding licenses, and on Friday he was a guide!..."!
    Some things never change.
    You are correct. At one point in each guide's life, he/she will have been THIS. There are so many ways to learn and kill bears, without having to live with them. I have never found it be difficult, mystical or life changing to kill bears. Put a good hunter in any good bear country and the results are always the same....dead bear. Each guide will at one time experience his "first" guided kill. That is the way it is.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    You are correct. At one point in each guide's life, he/she will have been THIS. There are so many ways to learn and kill bears, without having to live with them. I have never found it be difficult, mystical or life changing to kill bears. Put a good hunter in any good bear country and the results are always the same....dead bear. Each guide will at one time experience his "first" guided kill. That is the way it is.
    "...I have never found it be difficult, mystical or life changing to kill bears."

    Certainly agree with that. The "training" or professionalism comes into play when determining size, sex and circumstances surrounding the harvest. It does not take an in-depth review of the harvest records of the guiding industry in general or a number of individual guides to see just how "easy" it is to just shoot a bear.
    The issue isn't whether, "...Each guide will at one time experience his "first" guided kill...", the issue should be what level of training is to be expected of an assistant guide, or guide, before charging some hunter $15,000 plus for professional services.
    Joe

  9. #9

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    I take it, you must feel that the current requirements fall short. What do you propose to be the minimum requirements to obtain a guide license? Perhaps a sliding scale one could be paid....eg, Each year of experience a guide could charge an additional $1K. ??? Or...should the value be placed on such trivial matters, like Enthusiasm, Git-UpandGo, GungHoness and Cheerful Attitude? Hunting to me, isn't all that Serious Business that it is to some. I wouldn't last 30 minutes in a camp that dwelled on the Professional Aspects. It has to be Fun or I don't want to mess with it. I have never felt the need to learn how to build a watch, to tell me the time of day.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    I take it, you must feel that the current requirements fall short. What do you propose to be the minimum requirements to obtain a guide license? Perhaps a sliding scale one could be paid....eg, Each year of experience a guide could charge an additional $1K. ??? Or...should the value be placed on such trivial matters, like Enthusiasm, Git-UpandGo, GungHoness and Cheerful Attitude? Hunting to me, isn't all that Serious Business that it is to some. I wouldn't last 30 minutes in a camp that dwelled on the Professional Aspects. It has to be Fun or I don't want to mess with it. I have never felt the need to learn how to build a watch, to tell me the time of day.
    If guiding is in fact a profession and to be regulated as such the approach should be different than if "guiding" is treated as a "fraternity". If it "...isn't all that Serious Business..." then the standards should be much less stringent than those of a licensed profession.
    Joe

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    If guiding is in fact a profession and to be regulated as such the approach should be different than if "guiding" is treated as a "fraternity". If it "...isn't all that Serious Business..." then the standards should be much less stringent than those of a licensed profession.
    Joe
    Barbers, Cab Drivers, ToeNail Cutters and Dog Catchers all have to be licensed by the State. As do many other professions. Lots of reasons for that, but I don't think High Standards are among them.
    What changes would you like to see implemented in the Guide Licensing Requirements?
    What "standards" need to be elevated?
    How should Guide's rates they charge, be determined? Flat Rate, base on years, success or other factors?

    My personal thoughts on this are:
    The Licensing Requirements are nothing more than a limiting factor, as to numbers in given areas.
    The Market Place should drive the costs associated with all hunts.
    Young Guides are quite capable of conducting quality hunts.
    Too many Guides these days rely on too much commercial services, rather than their own devices, eg transportation and logistics.
    For the most part today, the Guides have moved TOO FAR away from the Hunting "fraternity" and into the realm of Big "business".
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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    For the most part today, the Guides have moved TOO FAR away from the Hunting "fraternity" and into the realm of Big "business".
    And that says it all!
    Gary
    Last edited by stid2677; 11-29-2010 at 16:25.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    and what should happen to all us guides who got our licences on monday and started guiding on tuesday...?
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Should be at least equal to barber like mentioned by Akres
    http://www.labor.state.ak.us/research/dlo/barber.htm
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Should be at least equal to barber like mentioned by Akres
    http://www.labor.state.ak.us/research/dlo/barber.htm
    Or...that of a Heart Surgeon...if we really want to raise the bar.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  16. #16
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Or...that of a Heart Surgeon...if we really want to raise the bar.
    Those are the ones that shoot their guides in the back so that won't do.RIP Milo God Bless
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    and what should happen to all us guides who got our licences on monday and started guiding on Tuesday...?
    Last Tuesday Or next Tuesday?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  18. #18

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    I take it you have a problem with new guides, did you have a bad experience, or do you just not enjoy competition? Or is there another agenda? Just asking out of curiousity.

    Sure would take a while to get 1600+ hours feild experience guiding, specially if you only counted shooting hours, or do these new guides need help cooking and setting up camp too? you have expressed your desire for more strict guidelines to become a guide, but have failed to mention any problems you have encountered with the current system, please educate me on the subject.

  19. #19
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    would military time in the field count toward guide requirements... hmmmmm

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Or...that of a Heart Surgeon...if we really want to raise the bar.
    I just read a story about a surgeon going hunting....

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