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Thread: need reloading bad "signs" 2nd opinion

  1. #1

    Default need reloading bad "signs" 2nd opinion

    I have modern nice rifles for hunting large game. However, for deer, every year I use an old milsurp. I find it fun to work up a load etc... Great fun and success every year.

    Anyway, I got a Steyr and Budapest M95 Mannlicher straight pull bolt rifle. Both are 8x56R carbines and great factory refurbishments. They have very strong actions. I got a lot of 205 grain, 1938 nazi ammo that shoots accurately and really wallops your shoulder.

    I bought Lee dies and they came with reload data. Reload data for that caliber is quite difficult to find so I was pretty much stuck with Lee's and the Hornady 205 grain Spitzer, Prvi brass and Buffalo Arms 150 grain bullets.

    In another forum, shooters grumbled about the watered down Lee load data, saying they had blow back in their face.
    I'm wondering if that is what I expeirenced..... I loaded the 150 grain bullets up with Lee's max for IMR 3031, 4064, 4350, and 4831. The blow back in my face was awful, the bolt got filthy and there was often a few grains of unburned powder. The brass cases had soot rings around the necks and was unusually hot. Is this low pressure signs like I hear?
    Same day TEST # 2, the Nazi ammo shot 5 rounds with clean cases and no blow back and kicked much harder and was much louder. The 205 grain bullets were loaded using mediocre 8x57 data as a guide (common for 8x56R shooters) and typically hotter. They (except for one weak load) did not create blow back and no sooty ring around the neck. Rifle was examined and in excellent condition, again 5 1938 nazi rounds shot fine. Am I likely expeirencing signs of low pressure from low powder charges (even though Lee's Max) not expanding the case neck tight enough to the chamber? No case necks were cracked, no case flattening, no bulged or flattened primers. I almost think that I should increase the charge one grain at a time until blow back ceases and the sooty ring disappears. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Light loads can cause as much if not more problems than heavy loads.
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    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what your charge weight with the 205's is, but in the Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions, they list 40gr of IMR3031 as the only load with 205's.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    I'm not sure what your charge weight with the 205's is, but in the Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions, they list 40gr of IMR3031 as the only load with 205's.
    Thank you. I sure would like other charges for IMR powders and 150 and 205 grain bullets if you have any. I found a 40-46 grain of IMR 3031 load for the 205 grain bullet on the web and used 44 grains, despite other 8x56R guys telling me to load to max or I'd have problems. Those spent cases are cleaner than the others without the soot ring on the neck. Also, I placed all trial loads in zip lock bags and put the spent case back in the labeled back just after firing these rounds had no unburned powder grains.
    The questionable Lee data list the MAX charge of IMR 3031 as 34.5 grains but for a 150 grain bullet! I did try that load and those case necks are filthy.

  5. #5
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    The 8x56mm Rimmed was set up to use a .329 diameter bullet and not the .323 or .318 like other 8mm cartridges. Using lighter loads with undersized bullets is a good way to have lots of blow-back as the gas will not make the case seal against the chamber walls. Instead they will head back towards your eyes.

    Hornady205 grain bullet (.330 in diameter)
    45 grains of H-4895
    Fed 210 or CCI-200 primer
    Loaded to 3.00 col
    Gives about 2,180 fps when fired from the carbine version.

    Hornady made a good .330 bullet that weighs 205 grains. You can still find them if you look around. Do not go by the Hornady product catalog for this year. They accidentally left out a few of their offerings.

    You can also run 338 caliber bullets through a Lee resizing die and have perfect .329 bullets.

    If you are going to shoot undersized bullets, the lightweight offerings will not help much. Something heavier will help cause the case neck to expand and seal. Shooting lighter stuff will continue to let the gas blow back into your face unless you load them so hot that it gets scary....
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    The 8x56mm Rimmed was set up to use a .329 diameter bullet and not the .323 or .318 like other 8mm cartridges. Using lighter loads with undersized bullets is a good way to have lots of blow-back as the gas will not make the case seal against the chamber walls. Instead they will head back towards your eyes.

    Hornady205 grain bullet (.330 in diameter)
    45 grains of H-4895
    Fed 210 or CCI-200 primer
    Loaded to 3.00 col
    Gives about 2,180 fps when fired from the carbine version.

    Hornady made a good .330 bullet that weighs 205 grains. You can still find them if you look around. Do not go by the Hornady product catalog for this year. They accidentally left out a few of their offerings.

    You can also run 338 caliber bullets through a Lee resizing die and have perfect .329 bullets.

    If you are going to shoot undersized bullets, the lightweight offerings will not help much. Something heavier will help cause the case neck to expand and seal. Shooting lighter stuff will continue to let the gas blow back into your face unless you load them so hot that it gets scary....
    2180 fps would be good enough. Ever chrony the nazi surplus?
    Anyway, was looking at your load recommendation and don't have H-4895, just IMR 4895 which is only 2 numbers away from H4895 on Hornadys burn rate chart. They appear very, very close. But I don't know what else could be different so nervous to substitute IMR 4895 for H4895 without more research. What do you guys think?

  7. #7
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    At a minimum you need to a chronograph. "Lots louder" and "much harder kicking" really isn't too useful.
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  8. #8
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    If it were me, and I wanted to figure out how much to change the powder weight from IMR 4895 from H-4895,,, I would look at another lower pressure rimmed round like the 303 British and see how both those powders were used in a at least 3 reloading books. Then back off three or four grains and work your way up...

    Get a chronograph
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  9. #9

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    Did that with the manuals at Sporsmans last night. Chrony is on the x-mas list, probably a beginner's model from Graf's for $104.

  10. #10

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    1938 Nazi ammo? I would see what the per round collectors market is on that before I fired any more.
    Just saying as I found out the .32 RF I paid $30/50 box 4 years ago is now $4.50 a cartridge!!!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    The 8x56mm Rimmed was set up to use a .329 diameter bullet and not the .323 or .318 like other 8mm cartridges. Using lighter loads with undersized bullets is a good way to have lots of blow-back as the gas will not make the case seal against the chamber walls. Instead they will head back towards your eyes.

    Hornady205 grain bullet (.330 in diameter)
    45 grains of H-4895
    Fed 210 or CCI-200 primer
    Loaded to 3.00 col
    Gives about 2,180 fps when fired from the carbine version.

    Hornady made a good .330 bullet that weighs 205 grains. You can still find them if you look around. Do not go by the Hornady product catalog for this year. They accidentally left out a few of their offerings.

    You can also run 338 caliber bullets through a Lee resizing die and have perfect .329 bullets.

    If you are going to shoot undersized bullets, the lightweight offerings will not help much. Something heavier will help cause the case neck to expand and seal. Shooting lighter stuff will continue to let the gas blow back into your face unless you load them so hot that it gets scary....
    Suggest that you check the diameter of the bullets your trying to use against the bore diameter. You also might want to measure the bullets in those "nazi" loads.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris112 View Post
    Suggest that you check the diameter of the bullets your trying to use against the bore diameter. You also might want to measure the bullets in those "nazi" loads.
    It slugs @ 329.879, nazi ammo is .329.22, I use .329 150 grains and the 205 Hornady .330

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