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Thread: What's wrong with this picture?

  1. #1

    Default What's wrong with this picture?

    Other then 5 out of 8 cracked tank mount welds on this 2009 boat what's wrong with this picture?
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  2. #2
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    What brand of boat is that ? I wouldn't want a fuel tank thats not removable.

  3. #3
    Member Dupont Spinner's Avatar
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    I will agree about not having the tank welded in and YOU ARE MISSING A CROSS BRACE ON THE RIGHT SIDE (left side of the boat) OF THE PIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus it does look like the center braces are not the same.

  4. #4

    Default 100 years of experience. What was learned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dupont Spinner View Post
    I will agree about not having the tank welded in and YOU ARE MISSING A CROSS BRACE ON THE RIGHT SIDE (left side of the boat) OF THE PIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus it does look like the center braces are not the same.
    The cross brace was actually being added to this boat to facilitate the addition of an in floor storage locker door hatch. Not sure why the center support is different???? The first thing I noticed when I saw this was "Who would WELD the tank into the boat?" WT_O???? There's no insulator between the tank and the bottom either! Laid it in right on top of the 1/8" bottom! Supposedly they've built boats over 100 years and know how to build a boat. I guess they've learned to cut a few corners since then.

    Ok I've given away enough clues. Let's see who guess it right.

  5. #5
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Looks just like mine, need to take it back to be welded a 3rd time.
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  6. #6
    Member tjm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    WT_O???? There's no insulator between the tank and the bottom either! Laid it in right on top of the 1/8" bottom! Supposedly they've built boats over 100 years and know how to build a boat. I guess they've learned to cut a few corners since then.

    Ok I've given away enough clues. Let's see who guess it right.
    what a disappointment you are Mel...

    I've been questioned about your boat relentlessly from other boaters, I made it a point to highlight the strong points of your boat to everyone I spoke to.... with the exception of my closest friends, they got the full story...Do you want to know why Mel?...Because it is terrible to talk crap about something in an attempt to make your product appear more attractive...People do that to draw attention away from their shortcomings.....It is too bad that you can't focus your efforts on making your boat more appealing to boaters on its own merit....very telling Mel...

    It kind of blows me away that a grown man...a business man....would stoop to some crazy childish crap like this....shaking my head and chuckling here Mel....

    It is actually a compliment to your competitor that you choose them to talk smack about...the funny thing is your statements are inaccurate...one of them is utter BS....I'm not going to argue about any of the details, there are many others that will do a better job explaining how your statements are incorrect and misleading...I'm sure they'll chime in....

    I'm sure that I'm not the only one that can now see through your BS and observe your real motives....do the right thing and pony up the cash to be an advertiser on this site, just like anyone else who is trying to sell their stuff...you're fooling yourself if you think the readers here can't see through your crap.....I'm surprised that you can't hear their laughter all the way out in Big Lake....

    We both made mistakes though....My mistake was thinking you were a man of character...your mistake is thinking the boat your selling will ever compete with a WOOLDRIDGE.....
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    ya were halibut grove fee for advertiser. It's only fare other had to pony up cash too... Brain....

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    I own a welding and machine shop here in the valley. We do alot of repair work on all types of boats. One quick comment, not all boat owners are created equal. We see some brands of boats more so than others with some of there inherant problems. We see very few Wooldridge boats in here for repair work. Even the best operators can have an unexpected mishap as they come around a corner and meet some unknown object. I hope you can find some positive experiences with happy owners while you are out enjoying our great state.

  9. #9

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    We both made mistakes though....My mistake was thinking you were a man of character...your mistake is thinking the boat your selling will ever compete with a WOOLDRIDGE.....
    How is my character in question when pointing out the facts. The fact that they weld the tank into the boat is just fact not something made up. The fact that the welds are cracking which are potential going to cause the tank to leak. The fact that the only way to remove the tank is to cut it out.

    These defects are not a result of operator error but poor design simple fact!

    Just stating the obvious, and who's character is question should be your own for pushing a product with serious design and quite frankly safety issues. I believe your the owner of the first XL with a SPJ, given a great deal on the boat to push how great it is. Don't over look the obvious in you marketing campaign. If I was the owner of any Woolridge the first thing I'd be doing is ripping up the floor board and checking to see if they WELDED the tank into the boat. Check the welds and if cracked demand they repair them as a manufacture defect.

    About the only thing you come close to getting right is the fact that a phantom can't compete with a Woolridge. Hand's down your correct! In fact I haven't seen any other manufactures that would lower their production quality to match that of the XL.
    I wander if they weld the tank into all of their boats? I wander if it's even USCG approved to do so?

    You can walk away with your feelings hurt about the poor design or you can take it as constructive criticism and go back to the manufacture and ask that they fix the problem. As someone looking to buy any boat the more they know about the product the better and if they don't mind dealing with issues like that above then more power to them but at least they were aware of it before hand.

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    wow HG you are totally clueless please remove yourself form this forum as I no longer want to read anything you post anybody else want to chime in....????

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by akmarineguy View Post
    wow HG you are totally clueless please remove yourself form this forum as I no longer want to read anything you post anybody else want to chime in....????
    Clueless about what AK? Are you living with blinders? Did you look at the pictures? Do you think welding the tank into the boat is a good idea? If so why?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    The cross brace was actually being added to this boat to facilitate the addition of an in floor storage locker door hatch. Not sure why the center support is different???? The first thing I noticed when I saw this was "Who would WELD the tank into the boat?" WT_O???? There's no insulator between the tank and the bottom either! Laid it in right on top of the 1/8" bottom! Supposedly they've built boats over 100 years and know how to build a boat. I guess they've learned to cut a few corners since then.

    Ok I've given away enough clues. Let's see who guess it right.
    Well, If you had pulled the tank you would find 2 rubber strips that keep the tank off the bottom of the boat so you were incorrect here just as you have been on several other topics in the past. Other builders use this same design on their boats as well, I don't believe the average boater will ever have to pull his fuel tank unless major damage has occurred to his boat. Even then in this application just a few welds to cut and the tank is out, more work for your welder buddy right???? more cash in his pocket!

    I believe if the owner wanted and by the way this is this guys 2nd Wooldridge jet boat, Wooldridge would gladly pay for this to be fixed at a shop of their and the owners choosing,they are ALWAYS just a phone call away and as others have stated on this forum and are a pleasure to work with for customer service on their products. Counting me, friends as well as acquaintances I can come up with 28 Wooldridge boats in use over the years with several on their 2nd boat.

    I have been reading or posting on this site for 6 years now and I have never seen ANY complaints on their product here,there are hundreds of Wooldridge 20ft Alaskan II in use on our rivers and I still have not met an unhappy Wooldridge owner yet, I'm sure I will meet one some day just the law of averages I guess.
    I have used a Wooldridge product for over 20 years now, on my 4th boat and continue to have 0 structural problems with any of them and our old boat, a 24ft Classic has over 2500 hrs and 11 trips down the Yukon with as much fuel gear and moose as she could carry with out a hitch, it still runs the Yentna every weekend.
    There was a boat load test on here a few months back that got this whole thing started, the guys went out of their way to not show the boat in a negative way and the nice thing about that thread was everybody knew the two brands of boats in the comparison nobody tried to throw rocks at the competing brands just a test of weight and efficiency.

    Well you are the first to enter the fray on behalf of the folks at Phantom. If you cant beat the competition then well, bash them.

    As for me I will continue to use my 23ft 7ft bottom 8.5 beam Wooldridge Super Sport Drifter with a gas powered 496 and a 212 that was over $10,000.00 cheaper than your diesel Phantom with no worries.

    I know several Phantom owners so please don't take this as directed to you or your boats.

  13. #13
    Member tjm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    How is my character in question when pointing out the facts.
    Your character is in question because you are not pointing out facts, your statements are not true....so either you are intentionally attempting to slander Wooldridge with your comments or you are an idiot....those are the only 2 possibilities...so which one is it?

    Here are the facts...

    Your character is in question because...
    I know the owner of the boat you took pictures of, in fact, I was with him the day the damage was done to the boat about a month ago, so I know exactly what caused it and what the boat looks like now....and I know you know how the weld cracked, that's why I question your character...

    Your character is in question because...
    The boat hit a boulder field going in excess of 30 MPH, we're not sure just how many boulder he hit but the incident absolutely ROCKED the boat, and judging by the marks in the bottom I'm guessing he hit in excess of half a dozen.....any boat would have suffered damage that needed repair......you conveniently left out how the boat got damaged...that's why I question your character...

    Your character is in question because...
    The crack you took a picture of is of a gratuitous brace....it is not needed at all...the weld shouldn't have cracked, but you can destroy any boat and this one took a tremendous hit....the length of the crack is less than one inch in length....heck, you can completely remove the top supports and the tank wouldn't go anywhere because it is braced in....do you know how your beloved North River boats do their gas tanks?...they drop the tank in and wedge it with WOOD to isolate it from the bottom and tighten it up...now I'm not bashing NR at all, I'm just pointing out that the Wooldridge went to extra lengths to secure the tank...you are intentionally attempting to paint a competitor in a bad light...that's why I question your character...

    About the tank being welded directly to the floor...here's where you are either lying or just being an idiot....the tank is isolated from the floor with rubber matting and "L" brackets...I confirmed that today, you can easily stick your finger under the tank and feel the rubber...your comments about this are completely false...that's why I question your character...

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    The fact that the only way to remove the tank is to cut it out.
    This is a very popular design, cutting a couple welds to remove the tank is common...you are a true freshman to the river jet boating scene, nothing wrong with that....you're trying to come across as an expert and it is providing many folks some good laughs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    These defects are not a result of operator error but poor design simple fact!
    Another false statement, and I know you know what caused the damage, it is absolutely OPERATOR ERROR....but you don't want anyone to know that because it deflates your attempt to slander the builder....what a piece of work you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    and who's character is question should be your own for pushing a product with serious design and quite frankly safety issues.
    I'm not pushing any product...I purchased the boat and told Wooldridge that if they wanted me to comment on the boat, I was going to call it like I see it...and that is all I did....I was so stinking impressed with the boat, that's obvious....I restrained myself quite a bit when commenting on the boat, I wanted the boat to speak for itself...I offered rides/demo's to anyone who wanted one, and the dozens of folks that took me up on it unanimously agreed that it was the best SJ they'd experienced...I wouldn't have to explain this if you'd have taken me up on my offer to take you for a ride, it would have knocked you socks off....really...

    Why did I do that?....pretty simple really, I worked with a vendor that treated me very well, so like any other product/service I'm happy with, I tend to speak out about it...so I'm not pushing anything anymore than someone recommending a restaurant because they liked the food/service...I don't get paid for anything I do, I do it because I'm a happy customer and the folks at Wooldridge are one heck of a good bunch....

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    I believe your the owner of the first XL with a SPJ, given a great deal on the boat to push how great it is.
    I am the owner of the first sport jet powered AK XL....what's this great deal you speak of?...I have just under $40,000 into that boat, I previously posted what the boat retails for so you can figure out what kind of 'deal' I got....the difference in price was for specific personal reasons that frankly aren't anyone's business....just another comment of yours that lends itself to questioning your character...

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    Don't over look the obvious in you marketing campaign.
    no marketing campaign here, I've been posting videos for years...long before the Wolly came along...I'm just a happy customer doing my thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    If I was the owner of any Woolridge the first thing I'd be doing is ripping up the floor board and checking to see if they WELDED the tank into the boat.
    no need to do that....none of the tanks in the Wooly's are welded to the floor...

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    You can walk away with your feelings hurt about the poor design or you can take it as constructive criticism and go back to the manufacture and ask that they fix the problem.
    no hurt feeling here...the only thing hurting on me is my stomach from laughing so much at your display of ignorance.....I don't think I'm alone when I say thank you for the show....

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    As someone looking to buy any boat the more they know about the product the better
    you are correct, so hopefully folks now know the truth....
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    pull my finger....

  14. #14
    Member jrogers's Avatar
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    Well I guess there is no question on where HG and TJM stand on these issues...

    The one thing I do disagree on with the anti-HG crowd is regarding people promoting products here. I think there are quite a few that are here for the purpose of promoting their products and communicating with their customers, which is fine with me, and apparently fine with the forum owners, since they seem to allow it.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjm View Post
    Your character is in question because you are not pointing out facts, your statements are not true....so either you are intentionally attempting to slander Wooldridge with your comments or you are an idiot....those are the only 2 possibilities...so which one is it?

    Here are the facts...

    Your character is in question because...
    I know the owner of the boat you took pictures of, in fact, I was with him the day the damage was done to the boat about a month ago, so I know exactly what caused it and what the boat looks like now....and I know you know how the weld cracked, that's why I question your character...

    Your character is in question because...
    The boat hit a boulder field going in excess of 30 MPH, we're not sure just how many boulder he hit but the incident absolutely ROCKED the boat, and judging by the marks in the bottom I'm guessing he hit in excess of half a dozen.....any boat would have suffered damage that needed repair......you conveniently left out how the boat got damaged...that's why I question your character...

    Your character is in question because...
    The crack you took a picture of is of a gratuitous brace....it is not needed at all...the weld shouldn't have cracked, but you can destroy any boat and this one took a tremendous hit....the length of the crack is less than one inch in length....heck, you can completely remove the top supports and the tank wouldn't go anywhere because it is braced in....do you know how your beloved North River boats do their gas tanks?...they drop the tank in and wedge it with WOOD to isolate it from the bottom and tighten it up...now I'm not bashing NR at all, I'm just pointing out that the Wooldridge went to extra lengths to secure the tank...you are intentionally attempting to paint a competitor in a bad light...that's why I question your character...

    About the tank being welded directly to the floor...here's where you are either lying or just being an idiot....the tank is isolated from the floor with rubber matting and "L" brackets...I confirmed that today, you can easily stick your finger under the tank and feel the rubber...your comments about this are completely false...that's why I question your character...



    This is a very popular design, cutting a couple welds to remove the tank is common...you are a true freshman to the river jet boating scene, nothing wrong with that....you're trying to come across as an expert and it is providing many folks some good laughs...



    Another false statement, and I know you know what caused the damage, it is absolutely OPERATOR ERROR....but you don't want anyone to know that because it deflates your attempt to slander the builder....what a piece of work you are...



    I'm not pushing any product...I purchased the boat and told Wooldridge that if they wanted me to comment on the boat, I was going to call it like I see it...and that is all I did....I was so stinking impressed with the boat, that's obvious....I restrained myself quite a bit when commenting on the boat, I wanted the boat to speak for itself...I offered rides/demo's to anyone who wanted one, and the dozens of folks that took me up on it unanimously agreed that it was the best SJ they'd experienced...I wouldn't have to explain this if you'd have taken me up on my offer to take you for a ride, it would have knocked you socks off....really...

    Why did I do that?....pretty simple really, I worked with a vendor that treated me very well, so like any other product/service I'm happy with, I tend to speak out about it...so I'm not pushing anything anymore than someone recommending a restaurant because they liked the food/service...I don't get paid for anything I do, I do it because I'm a happy customer and the folks at Wooldridge are one heck of a good bunch....



    I am the owner of the first sport jet powered AK XL....what's this great deal you speak of?...I have just under $40,000 into that boat, I previously posted what the boat retails for so you can figure out what kind of 'deal' I got....the difference in price was for specific personal reasons that frankly aren't anyone's business....just another comment of yours that lends itself to questioning your character...



    no marketing campaign here, I've been posting videos for years...long before the Wolly came along...I'm just a happy customer doing my thing...



    no need to do that....none of the tanks in the Wooly's are welded to the floor...



    no hurt feeling here...the only thing hurting on me is my stomach from laughing so much at your display of ignorance.....I don't think I'm alone when I say thank you for the show....



    you are correct, so hopefully folks now know the truth....
    Nice attempt TJM to protray something that is not the fact. For one I never said the tank was welded to the floor....Welded into the boat. Try reading and not get emotional! You can sit here and try to question my character all you want to delude the reader from the facts. You even had a picture showing where and how the tank was welded. Lose the attitude. The crack in the tank mount was one for 5 different cracks in the welds holding the tank in place. I never even mentioned the damage to the 1/8" bottom and I doubt it had anything to do with cracks holding the tank in place. The crack shown aren't even close to where the damage occurred Get real! Is there a rubber mat between.....sure didn't appear to be one under there. If you say there's one I'll trust you, but the fact is they weld the tank into place on the center stringers instead of bolting it in place and the only way to ever repair it would be to cut it out. Since it's a gas tank it's not something I wouldn't personally feel comfortable cutting out or welding on. Here's some pic of additional cracks.

    You can try to claim these cracks are associated with the hit on the bottom but I'll bet you they're are the result of vibrational stress. The constant pounding of the bottom on the water surface will do more damage to a boat then the occasional hit on the bottom. I've never it a rock and have had to repair tank mount welds on my Almar. It's 7 years old seen over 4000 hours of operation through rough seas. Thankfully the tank is bolted in place. The damage on this boat bottom was far from the tanks welds and it's a 2009 model. As I've mentioned many time before, if you want a light weight boat with less structural strength without any type of added bottom protection the Woolys your boat. There's a price to pay either way you choose.
    If you want to spend $40K on a light weight boat go for it! You could also spend $36K for a 60/40 baseline model with a SPJ and have a boat with much stronger structural integrity, 3/16" bottom, with a fuel tank thats not welded into the boat.

    I'll post some pic of the phantom structure so you can compare.
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  16. #16

    Default Phantom stringers

    Here's how the Phantoms stringers are built. Longitudinal box stringers on 3/16" bottom. Between each stringer, they place foam floatation and on top is 1/8 alluminum floor screwed to the box stringers. Compare this to what's seen in the Wooly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    Here's how the Phantoms stringers are built. Longitudinal box stringers on 3/16" bottom. Between each stringer, they place foam floatation and on top is 1/8 alluminum floor screwed to the box stringers. Compare this to what's seen in the Wooly.
    where's the fuel tank

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    Default Desperate!

    HG,

    You clearly have no shame, your quest to market your product in "our" market flopped on its face (On this forum) and instead of bowing-out gracefully. You chose to throw stones at very well respected bout builders.

    Distasteful, Pathetic and Desperate pretty well sums up your approach....As I said before...Good Luck.

    Now, back to your comments questions you had for me a while back.

    You got me!

    In response to your post directed toward me earlier.
    I guess I should have said new to jet boating rivers AKA "novice jet boater". Maybe, novice jet boater or novice river boater fits better....You pick?

    I will spare you anymore response to your statements/questions as they will not help your situation and your not worth my time, and only say, what I reported is what I witnessed that day....

    I will NOT talk fuel burn w/ you either, cause even if I said my fuel burn is some fantasy burn of 2 GPH at 30mph (its not), your setup would be better.....uhgg. We give up. Your right, a 190 HP diesel powered jet is more efficient than all other boats..........(sarcasm of course). Well, your skewed math proves it?
    Apparently the charts posted (real numbers) earlier in the thread, and "your math" lets say, have some discrepancies.
    Not sure? Perhaps the remainder of the forum members cant do simple math (sarcasm again in case HG takes me seriously) and you are the only one that can.

    For the record so you don't try and prove something, my boat does not burn 2gph at 30 mpg!

    The statement toward a particular brand being repaired in an an anonymous shop in Alaska means........Crap!
    Look up the the brand you "represent" on any other, as many have and you may be surprised. If not, then you will come to the conclusion that boat repair shops, repair boats.....No kidding!!

    Now, crazy at it may seem. Lets "pretend" to be objective.

    • How many aluminum boats are in AK?
    • How many are jet boats?
    • How many different brands are in the state?
    • How many aluminum boat welding shops are in the state?
    • How many boats of a particular brand/model have needed repair in the past 10 calender years? (the larger the sample the better, and most brands in question have been in business since)
    • What kind of repair?
    • Was the repair due to use or abuse?????
    So far you found one boat in one shop...Good research


    Answer these these questions and maybe you will have have an objective approach. I bet you find boats are not bullet proof and given the wrong operator Damage occurs to all brands.. Go figure!

    Many of us have done the research (several years worth) long before your quest and know what we like.

    With every word you spew, what thread of credibility you had left is shredded.

    Get over yourself and move ON!

    Perhaps, if your tune and approach was different the response would be as well

    Please don't waste your time and respond, dissect every word of this post as an attempt at redemption......Guess what you have nothing to redeem at this point. Secondly, I asked only one question directly.



    Jason

  19. #19
    Member tjm's Avatar
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    well, I think we've about said it all HG...

    we have discussed the topic ad nauseum....heck, I've contributed to the banter so I guess I'm making myself sick.......

    I'd like to assist you with your marketing, and help you demonstrate your points...I'm absolutely being serious....I dig boats, any boat...I've got a canoe, cataraft, round raft, couple of single man cats, and I'm looking for a small jon boat now....

    so here's what I'm willing to do for you Mel, if you'd like...if you find a potential buyer for the diesel Phantom that is a little unsure because of all the options in the shallow water category, I can get a sampling of boats together for your buyer to try out...I enjoy boating with a lot of different boats, they are all fun, I'd be happy to own most any of them....I'm sure with a few phone calls we could get an Extreme Shallow, Phantom SJ, Hewscraft SJ, SJX SJ, Wooldridge SJ and a few others all together for kick azz day of boating this spring....

    You can take your buyer out and demo the diesel, then they can take a spin in the other boats...heck, they could pull a few floor boards too if they're curious what's under there....it should be a slam dunk sale for you Mel, right?...again, I'm being completely serious, I'd do that for you and any guy that is looking to get into jet boating or looking to get a new boat....

    Heck why stop there, why don't we just get a bunch of guys together and spend the day exploring half a dozen of the Susitna tributaries...I'll pack the BBQ and you can pack the beer, what a hoot!...Call it the 1st annual Susitna boating Jamboree sponsored by FNM diesel...now we're talking some marketing......

    I'm not sure but I'd guess that there'd be some interest from a bunch of guys/gals for such a get together...

    So what do you say Mel?....let's get your boat some real exposure...let's plan this and get some folks out in some boats...the worst thing that can happen is we all have fun day, new friends, and some new stories to tell....perhaps we should start one of those 'AOD get-together' threads to gauge the interest and start planning some dates before king season really kicks in...how 'bout one of those 'sticky' threads,... mods?....
    ------------------------------------------------
    pull my finger....

  20. #20
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    I gave up whittling through all the BS in this thread but I'll tell you I've never seen an aluminum boat that didn't have its fuel tanks welded in. If the welds are cracked you can't blame the builder. You're the one that pounded the pizz outta it

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