View Poll Results: Which would you support

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Eliminate slot limit altogether

    6 10.53%
  • Keep current slot rules as is

    6 10.53%
  • Riverwide slot limit thru July 14

    5 8.77%
  • Riverwide slot limit thru July 21

    3 5.26%
  • Riverwide slot limit thru July 31

    37 64.91%
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 94

Thread: Kenai Slot Limit Options (POLL)

  1. #1
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen WA
    Posts
    4,516

    Default Kenai Slot Limit Options (POLL)

    Shoulda done this poll in the other thread, but it was too late to edit the opening post by the time I thought about doing it.

    One vote and one vote only. Let's see what folks think.

    Hey Brian is it possible to move this to the other board where it will get more traffic to sample a broader diversity of opinion.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  2. #2
    Member moose-head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    @ Seminary, Dubuque Ia
    Posts
    839

    Default

    I don't see the poll.
    If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction.
    Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  3. #3
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen WA
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Just posted it... looks OK from my end. Poll appears ABOVE the opening post.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  4. #4
    Member moose-head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    @ Seminary, Dubuque Ia
    Posts
    839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moose-head View Post
    I don't see the poll.
    OK Now I do
    If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction.
    Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default

    Doc you did not list shut it all down. NO C&R no to any king fishing of any kind. Thats what i think we need to do untill we get the numbers back up. If escapement is met then its game on!

  6. #6
    Member Mark Collett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Between the Willapa Rivers, United States
    Posts
    467

    Default

    Gotta agree with kpgr.
    shut'er down til escapement met. Only way to bring back the big guys

  7. #7
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    3 write-in votes for shut it down completely. It takes guts to make a stand +1 kgpcr

  8. #8
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Willow, AK
    Posts
    3,357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    3 write-in votes for shut it down completely. It takes guts to make a stand +1 kgpcr
    Is that a vote to shut down in-river fishing, or all fishing of Kenai chinook?

  9. #9
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eagle River/ Juneau
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    does anybody know if the percentage of old age class fish are lower relative to younger fish returning? I haven't seen the data, however if less old fish are coming back a slot limit makes a lot of sense if more are coming back and they are just smaller a slot limit doesn't make sense because the problem is low productivity in salt water (as kings will tend to stay longer if the productivity is lower in salt)
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  10. #10
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by willphish4food View Post
    Is that a vote to shut down in-river fishing, or all fishing of Kenai chinook?
    Yeah will if theres a shortage thats exactly what it means, sacrifice. There is no perfect answer, a closure would put more pressure on other systems. They may even think about shutting down retention of kings in the salt.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,073

    Default

    So if you shut the river down to king fishing how would you deal with the commercial fishermen that account for about 10,000 kings per year that are Kenai kings? On average the nets catch about 25% of the return.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington
    Posts
    1,207

    Default

    FishDoc is pointing out that not all components of the Kenai Chinook spawning stock at a point where a complete shut down is necessary or warrantted. Certain segments are at-risk, while others seem to be doing okay. Shutting down the river is both difficult and unnecessary if there is a way to protect certain stocks while allowing fishing to continue on those stocks that can take it. A slot limit attempts to do just that.

    I voted for a slot limit thru 7/31.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    soldotna
    Posts
    841

    Default

    Around 45% of the Second run Kenai Kings are "slot" fish. When you combine this with the average time it takes a sport angler to catch a Kenai King one would see that a slot lmit through July would be extremely hard to justify at the BOF level. In fact this is why ADF&G "opposed" a slot thru July at the last UCI BOF meetings. Yukon also brings up a good point and valid concern about the commercial harvest of these Kings. Last year the reported commercail harvest of Kenai Kings was nearly identical to that of the inriver sport fishery. What do we do with that information?

    Out of every single redd of spawning kings a certain percentage of them are going to come back to the river in different age classes (yes it also depends on ocean conditions and whatever else mother nature throws at em). So, even if two six or seven year old kings spawn together with no help from the "jacks" a certain % of these offspring will come back as 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 year old kings. This is why you will see such a wide range of size difference of Kenai Kings.

    Maybe, two larger kings will pass on more "return later" genes but then again maybe not. The fact remains that the same genes passed on by these two large kings are also present in all the age classes present in the return during the following years. Harvesting equally across the both the age class and return timing is a important factor to consider.

    I would rather try to do something that I know is going to work versus something that is simply feel good biology which another word for the slot limit. At the last UCI BOF several key spawning sanctuaries were closed for the entire season. This was and is a step in the right direction. By closing these areas I know that we are protecting the future stock of Kenai Kings and this is something that I know will work.

    I voted to remove the slot for the season but would of voted in a none of the above if given the choice.

  14. #14
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    So if you shut the river down to king fishing how would you deal with the commercial fishermen that account for about 10,000 kings per year that are Kenai kings? On average the nets catch about 25% of the return.
    You shut down the set net fishery thats what. Like I said it takes guts to make a stand. Keep the drifters in corridors and close the beach to set nets and close in-river fishing for salmon. I guess the only way to manage that would be hook size limit as well as say a 8lb test line limit. I don't know how we'd deal w/ all the gillnet thats in the dipnets. Sorry but thats the reality, the guides and the setnetters could have an unprecedented get together to cry in each others beer. That right there is more entertaining than watching a midget trying to maintain his dipnet real estate on an incoming tide. Now thats some funny shet!

  15. #15
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Unhappy Time changes nothing . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    . . Now thats some funny . .
    How long have I absented myself from these sort of discussions? A year? Two? Three?

    What's really funny is the proverbial frog-in-a-pan-of-hot-water story. Here we are, some years down the line, and what do we have? Same ol' voices, same ol' tired arguments, same ol' selfish interests, same ol' finger-pointing, same ol', same ol' while the fishery collapses around your heads.

    "C'mon, boys, let's get 'er done right . . . . . . this time."

    The water's gettin' hotter . . .

  16. #16
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    So if you shut the river down to king fishing how would you deal with the commercial fishermen that account for about 10,000 kings per year that are Kenai kings? On average the nets catch about 25% of the return.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    How long have I absented myself from these sort of discussions? A year? Two? Three?

    What's really funny is the proverbial frog-in-a-pan-of-hot-water story. Here we are, some years down the line, and what do we have? Same ol' voices, same ol' tired arguments, same ol' selfish interests, same ol' finger-pointing, same ol', same ol' while the fishery collapses around your heads.

    "C'mon, boys, let's get 'er done right . . . . . . this time."

    The water's gettin' hotter . . .
    I've only been a member since February '10 so maybe I'm missing the inside joke, but thats what we're trying to do is "get 'er done"

  17. #17
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen WA
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    Post has been up two days with 347 views, yet only 24 votes.

    Interesting observations among those who voted:

    1) 88% like some form of slot limit.
    2) Among those folks who like the slot limit, 95% would like to see it expand in July beyond what is currently in effect.
    3) Among those who want expansion of the slot limit in July, 65% favor a season-long slot limit thru July 31.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    421

    Default

    Depending on who cites statistics and the thread they are on, the mortality of any hooked fish is somewhere between 0% and 100%. Reality is probably in the low middle of that range, but roll your own.

    The netters catch is equal to the in-river harvest. The open ocean catch is unknown.

    The in-place systems for counting kings is at best shaky, and appears to be affected by calibration, technician experience, water clarity, and early Red returns

    Alaska salmon returns are inversely proportional to WA/OR returns and closely tied to variations in the PDO. The trend is down for years to come.

    Fishing pressure is a direct function of the population of Anchorage and the Kenai Peninsula. Guide poulation is function of personal interest and economic opportunity.

    There is no significant logging or development on the Kenai that can be blamed for sediment or floods. The glacial lakes sort of overwhelm all that.

    The genetics of the King population dictate a very staggered return age, and this now appears to be a very randomly distributed trait that can not be managed for.

    Argue if you must, but the above are the lessons and message gleaned from these boards and other sources. In the aggregate, what impact would a slot limit have? Could it have an impact exceeding maybe 1%? And since the counts are a bit in doubt, 1% of what?

    Taking a technique from the bass ponds may not be the appropriate technique.

    How about no guides Monday, period. And no guides Tuesday below the Moose. And no guides Wednesday from Skilak to the Moose?

    Doc posts lots of good stuff, but a slot limit may not hit his top ten. Flame away.

    Terry

  19. #19
    Member fullbush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Post has been up two days with 347 views, yet only 24 votes.

    Interesting observations among those who voted:

    1) 88% like some form of slot limit.
    2) Among those folks who like the slot limit, 95% would like to see it expand in July beyond what is currently in effect.
    3) Among those who want expansion of the slot limit in July, 65% favor a season-long slot limit thru July 31.
    Wait doc why are you completely overlooking the majority that believe it should be closed? wth?

  20. #20
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    5,639

    Wink "wth" indeed . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    . . why are you completely overlooking the majority that believe it should be closed? wth?
    The "wth" is easily explained: What's ultimately trying to be preserved here is not the fish but the ability to play with the fish.

    Once that priority is understood, all the proposed, so-called "solutions" are likewise understood . .

    ********************

    *And speaking of playing with the fish, how many times can a big king be caught and released before it no longer retains enough vigor to spawn effectively?

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •