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Thread: Baiting for Brown Bear

  1. #1

    Default Baiting for Brown Bear

    Maybe I should have put this on the bear baiting forum, but I thought I would get more replies here. Who thinks that Fish and Game should open up bear baiting for brownies in units 14A and 14B? To me, it seems like they need to be thinned out. And the spot and stalk opportunities in these subunits are far and few between. Fat chance that it would ever happen with all the greenies in Anchorage, but just wondering what everybody else thinks. To me, there are too many brown bears around the valley.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Normal hunting worked at one time and should still work.Best bet would be to make the whole area look like it did when going to the woods was enough to get the job done.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member gutleap's Avatar
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    It is not neccesarily that there are too many bears, it is that there are too many people in the valley. This is the reason for more interaction with humans. The more people that are out and about in the woods increases the chance of an encounter with bears. Also, all the sprawling development causes bears to roam and seek out new habitat. Not a bear problem in my opinion.

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    If you are noticing more bears in the area, then that means that you are seeing more bears, and if you are seeing more bears then it seems they wouldn't be too hard to hunt.

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    there are plenty of bear hunting techniques that dont require bait that are used in brushy areas all over the state. still/stand hunting food sources, hunting seasonal trails, etc. bears usually arent very patternable in a day-to-day routine sense, but they are very patternable in a seasonal sense. there's a particular thing that the bears in any given area are doing every season. meaning that within areas with high densities it shouldnt be too hard to figure out what theyre doing as a whole, and parking yourself in a sitation to intercept them....talk to some guys in parts of southeast, cordova, parts of south central...albeit, some places are harder to hunt than others, hunters have been killin em without bait throughout there range for eons...whats the problem now?

    i have nothing inately against bear baiting...but i have little respect for it as a hunting method...the skills are far more akin to trapping and very different. thats just my personal opinion, so i would definitely be against brown/grizzly baiting anywhere in the state......and admittedly (me being a guy that is against hunter segregation ie. bowhunter vs gun hunters or anything of the sort) this is a biased and cocky attitude towards this subject...i know...but i'm keeping it. mainly cause i just couldnt think of taking such a worthy game animal from a tree after tricking him into coming to a bait barrel. on that same note, you'll hopefully never hear me judging someone who hunts in any legal fashion with due respect to the critters and the woods and mountains they live in.

    so no i'm against it...but were they to put something like that into effect?...by all means, have at it, i'll just personally have to bail on that hunting trip.

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    nine foot- thats very interesting . Now if you went into a village or a small town (chicken or chisana) they what every bear dead. Now I will never shoot a cow of any kind, but bears are a predator, & just like in the old days I believe that a hunter must get food for his family & protect his food source ( shooting/trapping- bears,wolfs,coyote)for future use. I have just know picked up a bow, but will use a rifle,pistol,spear,knife to hunt my prey. so to answer the question, yes I agree that brown/grizz should be the same as blacks. But as that may be , It should be for alaskan resedence only, i see a problem with guides & out of state hunters jumping all over this. i'll go one further, let them be trapped too!!

  7. #7
    Member blasterak's Avatar
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    I would be totally for it, extend it up into unit 16 as well. I've had a few nice size grizzlies visit me at my bait site, sure wish I could of tagged them!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by blasterak View Post
    I would be totally for it, extend it up into unit 16 as well. I've had a few nice size grizzlies visit me at my bait site, sure wish I could of tagged them!
    My point exactly. I am not advocating for bear baiting for grizzlies as a substitute for the conventional methods of hunting them. I am all for spot and stalk hunting, and stand hunting over a salmon stream etc. But, the problem that I see in areas 14A and 14B, is that #1 brown bears are a primary source of predation on moose calves, some estimates suggest as much as 60% of moose calves are killed by brown bears, and #2 most bear baiters in units 14A and 14B, get brown bears on their baits rather than black bears. I just think they need to be thinned out a little. More as a predator control method, than a fair chase situation. I realize that it is not very sporting to take a brown bear on a bait, but it is effective. For the last two years, I bet I have had 20 brown bears to every 1 black bear that has come in to my bait. And all my hunting partners tell me almost the exact same thing. Now if a guy is willing to drive 100 miles north or east, then they might have better results. Or else take a boat up some of the major river systems. But if a guy wants to set up a station close by, they better be prepared to deal with brown bears, because they outnumber to black bears by at least 10 to 1. At least that is what I would guess based on my observations. I already have a nice grizzly hide, and I don't necessarily want another one. I would prefer to shoot black bears because they are edible and I am all about keeping the freezer full.

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    Member STEELHED's Avatar
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    Gotta side with ninefoot on this one. I am all for predator control, so maybe relaxing the bag limits might help, but not for baiting browns. It just opens up a big can of problems for the state and takes the sport out of it.

    I am also curious to see how many people would go as far as to not allowing baiting blacks. Before you chastize me, I completely understand all the reasons for doing it. And I have no problem with it, but if we are going to talk sport, how sporty is it? I don't do it out of fairness to the animal. Just my opinion and I am not trying to say stop baiting blacks, I am just curious how other people feel.

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post
    My point exactly. I am not advocating for bear baiting for grizzlies as a substitute for the conventional methods of hunting them. I am all for spot and stalk hunting, and stand hunting over a salmon stream etc. But, the problem that I see in areas 14A and 14B, is that #1 brown bears are a primary source of predation on moose calves, some estimates suggest as much as 60% of moose calves are killed by brown bears, and #2 most bear baiters in units 14A and 14B, get brown bears on their baits rather than black bears. I just think they need to be thinned out a little. More as a predator control method, than a fair chase situation. I realize that it is not very sporting to take a brown bear on a bait, but it is effective. For the last two years, I bet I have had 20 brown bears to every 1 black bear that has come in to my bait. And all my hunting partners tell me almost the exact same thing. Now if a guy is willing to drive 100 miles north or east, then they might have better results. Or else take a boat up some of the major river systems. But if a guy wants to set up a station close by, they better be prepared to deal with brown bears, because they outnumber to black bears by at least 10 to 1. At least that is what I would guess based on my observations. I already have a nice grizzly hide, and I don't necessarily want another one. I would prefer to shoot black bears because they are edible and I am all about keeping the freezer full.
    so your saying you would take the opportunity to take one on your bait site...not because you want a bear hide, but because you want to participate in predator control? if i'm wrong correct me. with that much interest in predator control and such an interest in your moose population, have you taken the time away from your bait site (especially considering it's adimittedly not very productive for black bears) and went and filled your brown bear tag in a legal (as it stands now) fashion? why the necessity to bait them...seems a very cost inducive endeavor to me for merely filling one tag in the name of predator control. anyway...i'm against it, but like i said before...if they were to pass it, you guys have fun, i'll not berate anyone for hunting in a legal, ethical fashion. as for predator control of the right kind: i'm sure if you've read past posts of mine you know i have a decent understanding of predator control and the need for it....do i think any
    one animal is "better" or more desireable based soley on the fact that we as humans like to eat its flesh? hell no. do i think we as stewards should strive to balance predator/prey species as stewards of our land...hell yes. but as well all know "balance" in nature is very misconstrued and VERY hard to obtain.

    as a side...i'm just expressing my general opinions on the subject...i have zero experience in unit 14 and any of its subunits...and the chances of me gaining any are very slim, so i'm definitely not assuming i am up to par with your situation in that country. just throwin in my couple pennies as always.

    another note...not sure of the big deal about eating brownies...i personally dont like bear meat...but i've eaten black bear numerous times, brown bear once, and tasted a piece of high moutain "grizzly" bear as well....they all taste like bear. i dont particularly prefer any of the above, but the meat was very similar and definitely the brown/grizzly i've eaten was no worse that blackie meat. all strong with the fat left on...but all definitely edible and not too offensive. guess i've just skinned too many nasty smelling ones to want to eat the meat, but it really wasnt that bad any time i've tried it. definitely have had duck/goose/ and late season caribou that was worse than any bear i've tasted. the reason i mentioned this is because you seemed to lump brownies into the nuisance category, and blackies in the "ok" category based on humans tendency to eat one or the other...interesting to me.

  11. #11
    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Until the last few of years ther was a 1 griz every 4 years in most units. There was a few units that allowed a griz every year. That being said it takes about 3- 4 years for the moma to have her first cubs. You could wipe them out pretty quick if there was a baiting season for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_skipper View Post
    Until the last few of years ther was a 1 griz every 4 years in most units. There was a few units that allowed a griz every year. That being said it takes about 3- 4 years for the moma to have her first cubs. You could wipe them out pretty quick if there was a baiting season for them.
    thats true you could wipe them out, but just like baiting black bears would you not be mostly after the boars?could make that the rule.
    It's also a pain the butt when a grizz comes into a bait, it makes one huge mess, eats alot of food, drives off most(there are exceptions)of the blacks & they will charge you if you walk in on them ( had it happen ). your allowed to hunt brownies next to salmon streams? your allowed to hunt grizz off a gut pile or a winter kill? just not dog food & doughnuts?

    I am blessed to hunt all most all year. may spring grizz, Baiting Blacks, August sheep, sept-moose,october goat & winter caribou.
    I just see baiting them as a good idea.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninefoot View Post
    so your saying you would take the opportunity to take one on your bait site...not because you want a bear hide, but because you want to participate in predator control? if i'm wrong correct me. with that much interest in predator control and such an interest in your moose population, have you taken the time away from your bait site (especially considering it's adimittedly not very productive for black bears) and went and filled your brown bear tag in a legal (as it stands now) fashion? why the necessity to bait them...seems a very cost inducive endeavor to me for merely filling one tag in the name of predator control. anyway...i'm against it, but like i said before...if they were to pass it, you guys have fun, i'll not berate anyone for hunting in a legal, ethical fashion. as for predator control of the right kind: i'm sure if you've read past posts of mine you know i have a decent understanding of predator control and the need for it....do i think any
    one animal is "better" or more desireable based soley on the fact that we as humans like to eat its flesh? hell no. do i think we as stewards should strive to balance predator/prey species as stewards of our land...hell yes. but as well all know "balance" in nature is very misconstrued and VERY hard to obtain.

    as a side...i'm just expressing my general opinions on the subject...i have zero experience in unit 14 and any of its subunits...and the chances of me gaining any are very slim, so i'm definitely not assuming i am up to par with your situation in that country. just throwin in my couple pennies as always.

    another note...not sure of the big deal about eating brownies...i personally dont like bear meat...but i've eaten black bear numerous times, brown bear once, and tasted a piece of high moutain "grizzly" bear as well....they all taste like bear. i dont particularly prefer any of the above, but the meat was very similar and definitely the brown/grizzly i've eaten was no worse that blackie meat. all strong with the fat left on...but all definitely edible and not too offensive. guess i've just skinned too many nasty smelling ones to want to eat the meat, but it really wasnt that bad any time i've tried it. definitely have had duck/goose/ and late season caribou that was worse than any bear i've tasted. the reason i mentioned this is because you seemed to lump brownies into the nuisance category, and blackies in the "ok" category based on humans tendency to eat one or the other...interesting to me.
    Although I respect your position to not bear bait, you shouldn't assume it is easy unless you have tried it. I have taken several bears, brown and black. And I have guided other hunters to brown and black bears. I know how to spot and stalk. In fact I have taken some respectable bears by spot and stalk method. Including a 9 1/2 grizzly in the chugach mtns. But the fact of the matter is, unit 14, is primarily boreal forest habitat, with very little topography in which to glass from. There are some places where you can glass, but the vast majority of it is not conducive to spot and stalk type hunting. And yes, I do enjoy hunting with my traditional bow from a treestand for bears. But, there is a high density of brown bears and a low density of black bears in my home unit. So, to me, it makes sense, to open up the season to browns as well as blacks. You yourself said that neither animal should take precedence over any other. So why should it be allowed for blacks but not browns? Is it just because they are cute and cuddly to the city folk? They do more damage to the moose populations. There are more attacks on people from Browns than blacks. At least in Anchorage. And yes, black bear meat is much better tasting than brown bear meat. Brown bears are more carnivorous than the black bear. Black bear meat in my opinion and many others is very tasty. But, I do appreciate the differing opinions and comments. Especially from fellow hunters and sportsmen. We should be as you say, wise stewards of the land. So I think good dialogue like this is healthy.

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    Default Baiting methods

    In my opinion if you hunt brown bears off of a salmon stream, or a berry patch that is a form of baiting. If you hunt them off of a gut pile, moose, or caribou kill that is a form of baiting. Predator calling or cow calling hoping to bring in a brown bear is also another form of baiting. The only difference between taking brownies in the previously mentioned reasons and over a pile of dog food or donuts is just a matter of human perception. They are all a form of baiting, or in another way to say it using something as bait in order to shoot a brownie. I agree with what some people said in that taking brown bears in some subunits of AK is tougher than compared to other subunits because of the cover and other habitat effects. I would be for hunting brown bears over bait in certain subunits of Alaska, but the reason why we shouldn't do it is because the anti-hunters would go crazy over this and it would negatively impact our image as hunters if we started shooting brownies over human created bait stations, plus just by looking at this thread it would also divide the hunting community between those who support it and those who don't.

  15. #15

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    Very good points 33outdoorsman. I agree, we should never do anything to divide our hunting community. But, at the same time, I think if it is deemed necessary to manage the numbers of predators, then we should not worry about what the antis are going to say. Through the Pitman Robertson act, we as sportsman are the ones paying for wildlife management, not the antis. I think the question we have to ask ourselves is, why is it allowed to hunt for black bears over bait and not brown bears? Well, I think originally, ADF&G had decided that baiting was an effective management tool for reducing the number of black bears in certain areas of the state. But now, brown bears in some units outnumber the blacks and they are becoming a nuisance. So why isn't the same logic being used by fish and game that was used initially in the beginning? Because they and we are too scared of what the antis will say. Well I for one don't want to sit back and be scared. I think we need to do what is right and effectively manage the populations properly.

    However, I do see your points. Especially about us hunters sticking together and maintaining a positive image for not the anti hunters, but the non hunters. I don't think anything we say or do is going to have an impact on the anti hunters. They are just crazy. But, I do agree that our actions, positive or negative do affect those who are on the fence and haven't yet decided what they think about hunting. Those are the people we need to win over. Especially the next generation.

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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    I have to ask all of you if you have looked up the reproduction of the griz? They are not like the Blacks. As I have said before I am not a greenie, just somebody that is looking out for the best intrest for all.

    Take some time and look at the diffarance between the two.

    Type in reproductin of bears in a search engine and educate yourselfs. Thanks

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    At what point does it become "save a moose, Shoot a bear"? if bear are decimating the moose and caribou herds then they turn into varmints in my book but then again i dont care for bear meat at all and not into bear skin rugs but we all are into a freezer full of moose.

  18. #18
    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post
    Although I respect your position to not bear bait, you shouldn't assume it is easy unless you have tried it. I have taken several bears, brown and black. And I have guided other hunters to brown and black bears. I know how to spot and stalk. In fact I have taken some respectable bears by spot and stalk method. Including a 9 1/2 grizzly in the chugach mtns. But the fact of the matter is, unit 14, is primarily boreal forest habitat, with very little topography in which to glass from. There are some places where you can glass, but the vast majority of it is not conducive to spot and stalk type hunting. And yes, I do enjoy hunting with my traditional bow from a treestand for bears. But, there is a high density of brown bears and a low density of black bears in my home unit. So, to me, it makes sense, to open up the season to browns as well as blacks. You yourself said that neither animal should take precedence over any other. So why should it be allowed for blacks but not browns? Is it just because they are cute and cuddly to the city folk? They do more damage to the moose populations. There are more attacks on people from Browns than blacks. At least in Anchorage. And yes, black bear meat is much better tasting than brown bear meat. Brown bears are more carnivorous than the black bear. Black bear meat in my opinion and many others is very tasty. But, I do appreciate the differing opinions and comments. Especially from fellow hunters and sportsmen. We should be as you say, wise stewards of the land. So I think good dialogue like this is healthy.
    absolutely it's healthy...so why dont we continue.

    first your assuming a bit much here...first that i dont know anything about baiting bears...thats wrong, i know quite a deal about baiting animals and i have a respect for the skills and dedication required to draw out the big boars....i get it, trust me. i just see it as a different set of skills, and a different type of hunting. you might be assuming annimosity towards the subject that just really isnt there...theres not just a whole lot of people i revere as GREAT all around hunters (and i am definitely not one of them!) but two of them that come to mind for me personaly (along with their vast general hunting savvy)are both absolute masters at selectively pulling numerous huge boars out of there baitsites every year...make no mistake, i respect the time and discipline that takes.

    second...that i'm in any way implying that your not a good hunter, or that you dont understand other hunting methods...i'm not. i dont know you and definitely dont know anything of your skills in the woods either way...just bringing up questions of my own towards your post...back to the dialologue being a good thing and all that.

    i also mentioned that my attitude towards the subject might admittedly be cocky and biased...is what it is. but definitely no disrespect intended...just my opinion...biased because they are my absolute favorite game animal...cocky because i dont hold the respect for patient style hunting i do for pro active physical hunting...thats just me, thats what turns my crank. i would undoubtedly drive good standhunters crazy with my attention defecit approach to most big game hunting ie..if it wont come to me i have a tendency to go find it.

    and i didnt quite say i dont believe one animal should take precedence over the other...i conveyed that i dont think one animal should necessarily take presedense over another just because people think its tasty. i have no problem placing precadence on fragile species over species that are more tolerant to things such as human pressure and encroachment on habitat. are we in any danger whatsover of huge population declines of ungulates conitnent-wide??? nope. do we always have pontential to have a huge impact upon our populations of the big bears continent-wide??? definitely, look at the lower forty eight.

    and come on...more attacks from browns...who cares. we share the world with many potentialy dangerous animals and things (not to mention people) what does that have to do with anything.

    as far as the meat...just my opinion...neither too awwfully tasty...neither too awwfull either, though.
    as far the the different carniverous nature...just depends where you are. lots of places black bear eat huge amounts of fish...and many spots brownies get little meat of any kind in the spring time. in one particular unit i know and hunt quite well, the blacks are supposedly to blame for heinous moose calving problems...this in an area with a superb amount of both species of bears.

    anyway bushwhack...all that being said i humbly respect your opinion and hope such a thing never comes of such a worthy game animal. but if it does i'll still support ya as a hunter, but i just cant justify killing a big bear like that...right or wrong, whatever.

  19. #19

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    That's fair. Point taken. Good comments everyone. This is exactly the kind of input I was looking for. It is very interesting to me to hear all the different opinions.

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    Member stevelyn's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with it. I think a baiting regulation should be GMU specific and not a blanket regulation for the entire state.
    Now what ?

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