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Thread: moose rounds

  1. #1

    Default moose rounds

    i now i am splitting hairs with this subject but in ballistics i have never understood the speed concept. the difference between the 300 win mag and the 338 win mag, the 338 win mag is a slower round with 250 gr but its heavier a 300 win mag with 180 gr is faster so should it cause more organ destruction then a 250 gr .338 cal at 2700 fps causing a faster kill? another thing is that allot of people like using heavy bonded bullets that don't brake apart wuldent you want something that brake apart causing more damage. like a 150gr bt.

    plz help me with this subject if u don't understand il send another post clarifying i am french canadian my english is not the best and if u can send pics

  2. #2
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    I can't comment on the speed of the bullet, a dead moose is a dead moose. I use a bonded bullet because it needs to penetrate without breaking apart on the ribcage/ shoulder in order to get to the vitals.

  3. #3

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    i know both will kill a moose its the concept that i don't get

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Luiss, in a big animal like a moose you want the bullet to reach the vitals. A soft bullet at high velocity may come apart too early- leaving an enormous crater on the surface but little fatal damage down deep in the vitals where it will do some good.

    A controlled expansion bullet is designed to hold together, expand more slowly and penetrate deeper into the vitals- in fact, many will go clear through. When I was younger shot a number of deer with 125gr Silvertips from an '06 at outrageous velocity. The behind the shoulder lung shot dropped them in their tracks like Thors hammer and I never got an exit and never recovered a mushroomed bullet. But, an ill advised shot through a shoulder failed to penetrate and it took several hours of hard tracking to get him- I started using heavier bullets after that.

    In the old days not many bullets would stand up to the high velocity of magnums and failures to penetrate were common- read the account of John Nosler's motive to create the Partition and you'll get the idea.

    In the .300 and .338 example you cite there is no practical difference as long as good bullets are used. I would not use a .300 mag/150gr ballistic tip on a moose- thats a sheep/deer bullet and in that regard work fine but you might not get the penetration on a bigger critter.

    I keep it simple- I shoot 180gr Accubonds @ 2950fps at everything. In the .338WM I would use the 210/ 225gr class of controlled expansion bullet- ie. the Partition/ AB/ or TSX.

    High velocity and terminal ballistic are interesting to think about but shot placement is what kills them.

  5. #5
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Excellent explanation Hodgeman.

    Luisss,
    Every bullet has an optimum performance potential. It's a function of the weight, construction, velocity and the composition of the target. In a given caliber, say 30.06, a 180 grain bullet leaving the barrel at 2700 fps will achieve it's optimum performance on a moose sized animal at around 175 to 225 yards. Assuming a shot to the vitals, under these conditions the bullet will impact the moose with enough energy to expand, hold together AND penetrate deeply, fatally damaging the lungs and other organs and cusing a nearly immediate death.

    For hypothetical purposes if you shot that moose from farther away, say 300 or 350 yards the bullet would still expand but since it was in flight longer it impacts with less energy so it expands and penetrates less. It would still kill the moose almost immediately but if both bullets were recovered and compared there would be noticable differences in pentration and bullet expansion.

    If we go the other direction and shoot the moose from 50 yards the bullet is traveling much faster and impacts with far greater energy. Typically this amount of energy is far more than the bullet's design and construction can handle and it disinigrates.

    Same bullet, same rifle, same target, shot angle and point of impact but the performance changes with impact energy which is function of bullet velocity, which is in turn a function of shot distance.

    Going back to your earlier example of the .338, a 225 gr bullet in that caliber has about the same ballistics as the 180 gr .06. If bullets of the same brand and type were shot from both calibers at the same moose at the same 200 yards the .338 would do more tissue damage than the .06. The reason is because although both bullets are impacting at the same velocity, the 225 gr bullet has far greater mass and therefore far greater energy.

    Staying with the .338, what happens if you shoot a deer in the chest at 200 yards? You get a huge, ugly exit wound because the deer's body had enough mass to start bullet expansion but not enough to absorb the energy produced by the bullet. So, the bullet pushes through. Going back to the .06 the bullet might pass through but in most cases it won't. The lesser mass of the 180 gr bullet is better matched to the lesser mass of the deer's body.

    Think about bullet choices relating to expected shot distances in terms of energy instead of speed & caliber. Hope this helps.
    If cave men had been trophy hunters the Wooly Mammoth would be alive today

  6. #6

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    yes i get it now the reason u get big exit holes is when the bullet travles fast enufe threw the animal like and elk that thersa big hole the moose if big and strong so it absorbes the bullet thats why use barnes x

  7. #7

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    how is the 250gr or 225gr bares ttsx they make a big exit hole from what ive read they arent to good on lung shot since they dont do much tissu damage or even 250 gr partition

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Luiss, do some studying on how the diaphragm makes the lungs expand and contract. A large exit wound in the lung cavity is a great thing. I don't know what kind of lung shot damage a 225gr TSX makes but I'm confident its adequate for the task.

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    If its a .300 mag, or .50 browning, it wont die any faster than the organ it plows through. Death comes Instant to the brain, a few yards on a heart shot and sometimes a hundred yards on a lung shot, and bad shots elsewhere add up to long distance bummers.
    I use a second shot (and a third if my Karma's bad, or getting worse) if I havent placed the first one properly.


    Theres a sound that animals make as well as a good visual that lets you know you have blown holes through them. I dont think a few hunderd feet per second of a few hundreths of an inch in diameter is gonna kill anything faster. Often you just have to "Let them die" like when they are painting swaths of blood on the snow , and staggering.....nothing less than a second shot to the brain will hurry the process.
    A well placed shot, even with a .223 is just that, and it will die as it does.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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