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Thread: Question re: draw tags

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Default Question re: draw tags

    I see this on a lot of draw results, maybe someone can explain. There is a set number of tags to be given out for a particular draw (permits available), lets say 31 as in DM812. 45 people applied for this hunt then only 28 permits were awarded. Why is it that there were 31 permits available and only 28 awarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Troutbum View Post
    I see this on a lot of draw results, maybe someone can explain. There is a set number of tags to be given out for a particular draw (permits available), lets say 31 as in DM812. 45 people applied for this hunt then only 28 permits were awarded. Why is it that there were 31 permits available and only 28 awarded.
    I can't say for sure, but in some cases it could be that they re-evaluated the populations and decided to reduce the available permits accordingly. Also, it could be that a number of the applicants did not qualify since they either were incoplete or otherwise invalid or they already drew a permit for that species and thus were not elegible for a 2nd draw permit.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    What skier said AND when a drawing applicant has failed to submit their harvest reports for the previous year, they are disqualified for the next years drawings.

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Could they view a party hunt as 'one permit'??? Just a thought...

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    Could they view a party hunt as 'one permit'??? Just a thought...
    no two permits are issued
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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    no two permits are issued
    Yeah, I know, but I was thinking maybe the computer views it as one, causing the discrepancy...probably not though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    Yeah, I know, but I was thinking maybe the computer views it as one, causing the discrepancy...probably not though...
    I don't think that's the case or else we would see it show up a lot more often. Typically, we only see the situation of more permits available than permits issued once or twice a year looking at the drawing success table at the end of the supplement. I can't imagine that party hunts are only picked that few number of times.

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    Member jmg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    What skier said AND when a drawing applicant has failed to submit their harvest reports for the previous year, they are disqualified for the next years drawings.

    Why wouldn't they just disqualify applicants when the application comes in initially, instead of drawing names from both eligible and ineligible applicants, and then throwing out those who are drawn that are ineligible? And then to not draw another name to replace that tag with an eligible applicant? I'm not saying it doesn't happen that way, as F&G can do some screwy stuff. But if that's how they do it . . . well . . . that's some screwy stuff.

    Could you imagine them doing it that way on a draw where there is only one tag, or even a couple tags, for a single hunt, and then having the winners be deemed ineligible? Sorry, no tags going out for that hunt this year.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmg View Post
    Why wouldn't they just disqualify applicants when the application comes in initially, instead of drawing names from both eligible and ineligible applicants, and then throwing out those who are drawn that are ineligible? And then to not draw another name to replace that tag with an eligible applicant? I'm not saying it doesn't happen that way, as F&G can do some screwy stuff. But if that's how they do it, well, that's some screwy stuff.
    because J some of the tags are NOTdue in until the end of the regulatory year.. when we apply for them before it's end...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    because J some of the tags are NOTdue in until the end of the regulatory year.. when we apply for them before it's end...

    Ahhh, yep, that would be why. That makes sense. Can you imagine getting drawn for that once in a lifetime hunt, then forget to turn in your dipnet card and have F&G yank it out from under you. Yikes.
    Never count your days, but rather, make all of your days count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmg View Post
    Why wouldn't they just disqualify applicants when the application comes in initially, instead of drawing names from both eligible and ineligible applicants, and then throwing out those who are drawn that are ineligible? And then to not draw another name to replace that tag with an eligible applicant? I'm not saying it doesn't happen that way, as F&G can do some screwy stuff. But if that's how they do it . . . well . . . that's some screwy stuff.

    Could you imagine them doing it that way on a draw where there is only one tag, or even a couple tags, for a single hunt, and then having the winners be deemed ineligible? Sorry, no tags going out for that hunt this year.
    What Vince said and also that there may have not been enough elegible people to take all of the available permits once the inelegible people were removed. In the OP's example, there were 45 applicants and only 28 of 31 permits awarded. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up that there were 17 inelegible applications for one reason or another considering how many different reasons an application would not be elegible to draw a specific permit (not filing previous hunt reports, inproperly filling out the application, drawing another permit for the same species already, etc...).

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    What Vince said and also that there may have not been enough elegible people to take all of the available permits once the inelegible people were removed. In the OP's example, there were 45 applicants and only 28 of 31 permits awarded. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up that there were 17 inelegible applications for one reason or another considering how many different reasons an application would not be elegible to draw a specific permit (not filing previous hunt reports, inproperly filling out the application, drawing another permit for the same species already, etc...).
    Here's another example: DS103 2339 applications, 40 permits available, 39 permits drawn. And if you look through all the permits there are actually quite a few where there's more available than drawn.

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    Member TR's Avatar
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    I wonder if they boost the number of available permits knowing there will be a certain percentage of ineligibles?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Troutbum View Post
    Here's another example: DS103 2339 applications, 40 permits available, 39 permits drawn. And if you look through all the permits there are actually quite a few where there's more available than drawn.
    i think you also have to becareful of UP to language.. if a permit states UP TO XXX permits will be issued means could be 0-1-XX???? much of that depends on spring data... to determine fall quotas.
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    Default screwy? believe it is sometimes

    Quote Originally Posted by jmg View Post
    Why wouldn't they just disqualify applicants when the application comes in initially, instead of drawing names from both eligible and ineligible applicants, and then throwing out those who are drawn that are ineligible? And then to not draw another name to replace that tag with an eligible applicant? I'm not saying it doesn't happen that way, as F&G can do some screwy stuff. But if that's how they do it . . . well . . . that's some screwy stuff.
    I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong here, but an example of this type of screwiness would be if last year in the main drawing, you drew a GMU 13 caribou permit, and a moose permit for any unit other than 13.

    On first glance at the "kill a GMU13 caribou and you're moose hunting unit 13 only" clause, you might have thought you had a choice to hunt one or the other.....

    But then, after reading the fine print, you'd find out that the mere fact of having DRAWN that unit 13 caribou permit disqualified you to hunt that non-13 moose permit, that they DID award to you.... So why did they award it to you??????

    So yeah, I think screwy things do happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong here, but an example of this type of screwiness would be if last year in the main drawing, you drew a GMU 13 caribou permit, and a moose permit for any unit other than 13.

    On first glance at the "kill a GMU13 caribou and you're moose hunting unit 13 only" clause, you might have thought you had a choice to hunt one or the other.....

    But then, after reading the fine print, you'd find out that the mere fact of having DRAWN that unit 13 caribou permit disqualified you to hunt that non-13 moose permit, that they DID award to you.... So why did they award it to you??????

    So yeah, I think screwy things do happen.

    I don't know, but they sure made it easy this year. Put in for that Unit 13 caribou, and you are automatically precluded from putting in for moose anywhere else. I imagine the number of folks putting in for Unit 13 moose next year is going way, way up.
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    Member oakman's Avatar
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    Another possibility is when a serviceman is unable to use a tag from the previous season due to a deployment (like Iraq). Then the next year they get to use the tag. Maybe they reduce the number of tags available for the year he is going to hunt by one?

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    So it has been said that if you fail to fill out a harvest report you are disqualified. Do they notify you? What if there is a glitch in the system and your reporting is somehow lost? They give you an email to verify that you indeed report; but do you ever get a chance to use that verification to argue a possible disqualification?

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    Default use the online hunt report system

    Quote Originally Posted by RC23 View Post
    So it has been said that if you fail to fill out a harvest report you are disqualified. Do they notify you? What if there is a glitch in the system and your reporting is somehow lost? They give you an email to verify that you indeed report; but do you ever get a chance to use that verification to argue a possible disqualification?
    There is no recourse whatsoever I'm aware of. Other than keeping your confirmation numbers from every hunt report you file (online). Their online hunt report system is actually pretty snazzy; it has worked very well and smartly for me.

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    Has anyone out there ever been told they were disqualified for a particular tag or all that were applied for? Any of the years I don't get drawn for something it leaves me wondering if something happened or I filled something out wrong etc. It would be nice to know so the same accident or mistake doesn't hapen again. Just asking.

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