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Thread: At what point does that old " Safe Queen" start making value?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default At what point does that old " Safe Queen" start making value?

    I have always been a firm believer that guns really do not depreciate unless really abused... but then i see some going dirt cheap also... so at what point does the value of that old firearm, that is no longer made start to increase? or does it? how old is old? ect...
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    I think the value of old firearms is directly related to demand. If it is/was a popular, well-liked model, then it will likely increase in value. Case in point, the Colt Peacemaker. It was the mainstay of the US armed forces for years, and one of the most common sidearms of many of the western pioneers. The design itself is copied by numerous gunmakers, and is still one of the most popular handgun designs. An original, old-west era Colt peacemaker today is worth a fortune. Same story with the original 1911's.

    Based on that theory, I'd guess decent examples of Remington 700's, Ruger 10-22's and the like will go up in value eventually.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

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    When you sell it to me and I turn around and sell it to make a profit I guess it all depends a primo pre-64 brings real good money model 70 especially if itís a rare caliber ie 250-3000, 358, and a few other odd balls they chambered then you get into the whole pre-war post war model 70 the clover leaf tang versus the non clover leaf tang. The thing of it the model 54 was a great rifle too but folks turned there noes up on them, because they are not pre-64 model 70. I love the old model 54 love to find one in a 270 and 30-06 in good shape. Another one that is the Rodney Dangerfield of guns is the old model 30 built by Remington I seen more of those bought for the action it saddens me to see these fine old guns destroyed. I also like the old 721 but it could compete against the pre-64 it was good action and the basis for the famed model 700. I think if you have any model 99 savages built before the 80's will increase in price I have a 99C in a 284 and that thing is worth some money I paid 600 for it last time I looked they were selling around 900-1100. Another one is the model 88 or 100 308 sell all day long for 400-500 but find one in a 284, 358 you are talking 1500 plus for one makes you wish you picked them up when they were a dime a dozen. There are some rare gems in the ruger 77 as well one being the 284 they made a limited run back in the 70s I think and the 6.5 Remington mag was the other those two are worth a whole bunch of money due to their limited runs. I remember as a kid Sako pre Garcia were worth a ton of money I see them today and they really haven't gone up much. We also have rifles that decrease as soon as you walk out the store with it and that is weatherby guys will never be able to recoupe the 1,000 dollars plus they spent in the end they take a hit and lose money. One last note some of the older ruger 77 are starting to climb ie the old flat bolts and round tops I need to find me some before the go sky high.

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    I think if you took say $500.00 and bought a gun, and took another $500.00 the same day and invested in a mutual stock fund, wait 40 years and then see what its worth, the mutual fund will likely gain enough to pay for all the guns you may have accumulated!
    Trying to guess which models will appreciate is pretty tough. I think it takes a good combination of some quality, bought at a below retail price, plus time ( years ), and or an unexpected company closure or dropping of a line, to see a rapid increase of value.
    I have usually done better buying a very good used gun and selling it for a profit than a new one for sure.
    I agree though, they seldom loose much value....
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I agree though, they seldom loose much value....
    Somehow that argument seems to only hold true for the guys I am trying to buy from and never when I'm selling. It's just like used cars for me...When I'm buying there's not a deal to be had but when I'm selling I'm lucky if I just get robbed and not raped.

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    IMO guns are not a good investment. Firearms, like all collectibles, is a demand driven market and collectors are fickle by nature. Almost any type of traditional investment offers a dramatic increase in the likelihood of greater return. Ask any financial planner about diversifying your portfolio with a Hemi 'Cuda, a young artist that you admire, and your wife's Beanie Babies; let me know what he says.

    That being said, guns are not an unwise purchase. There are few "hobbies" that allow the consumer to enjoy their proper use, while maintaining a significant portion of their value like the shooting sports. So long as you take care of granddad's favorite shotgun it'll hold its value pretty well. Try that with a fine wine or with a Porsche that he'd driven for 100K+ miles. Once they are used they become practically worthless. I'd say firearms are a pretty good bargain for my money, but they're not an investment.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evandailey View Post
    Somehow that argument seems to only hold true for the guys I am trying to buy from and never when I'm selling. It's just like used cars for me...When I'm buying there's not a deal to be had but when I'm selling I'm lucky if I just get robbed and not raped.
    LOL evandailey, I have been there for sure!
    The trick is to have some cash in your wallet and buy right when you are not looking to buy but have a "motivated" seller, and sell when you have a "hot" buyer but not looking to sell! Easy enough
    Ex: had a friend that was a drunk - needed some money to pay the rent - sold me a brand new Rem 1100 20 ga High Grade - $100.00, I was not looking to buy but couldn't pass that up! Now to be fair I gave him 1 year to buy it back for $110.00 - he never came up with the money so it became mine....
    Our problem is we often buy with emotion - can't do that in business very often without getting stung!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    I wouldn't count on any gun appreciating. It's just luck of the draw. Example: I bought a Winchester model 43 in .218 bee in the 80s for $100. I just wanted a shooter, there is nothing special about the M43, it was just a mass produced gun for those who couldn't afford a model 70. Today I would need $1000 to replace it.
    At same time I bought a 50s Remington model 742, perfect condition, for $250. What would it cost me today to replace it? Why the very same $250 I paid for it 25 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Our problem is we often buy with emotion - can't do that in business very often without getting stung!
    Well spoken....

    I don't believe that guns are a great investment, but it makes a fair argument for when convencing the wife that you just have to have another one.

    I think that ammo is a better investmen. Given the liberal agenda and the ever-present zombie threat, that stuff is going to be worth more than gold sooner or later....

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    There are very few items that you can aquire that will retain value. Guns are one of them. If you take good care of them, don't abuse them, and buy quality items, not the cheapest, you will probably do OK. Never be in a hurry to sell, always be prepared to "jump" on a deal when its in front of you. Not many things you can purchase, shoot the heck out of, and still get most of your money back when you are done. Try that with your couch, car or TV.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Guns are for using and making memories. Whatever monetary value they retain when I'm done with them and ready for another is just icing on the cake.

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    My guns have patina your guns have rust
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    I have always been a firm believer that guns really do not depreciate unless really abused... but then i see some going dirt cheap also... so at what point does the value of that old firearm, that is no longer made start to increase? or does it? how old is old? ect...
    Couple of thoughts,

    My buddy Mike pointed out that guns are for buying, not selling...


    Most gun nuts can tell you about guns they should have kept and not sold. I can see a gun, not sure where the cash went though.

    Value depends on which side you are on...
    the econmic theory is that someone sells something because they feel thay are getting more money than it is worth. They buy something becuase they think it is worth more that they are paying for the item.
    Note the words, feel and think.....

    My question is, if you got a good deal, did the other guy get screwed on the price?

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    Quote Originally Posted by allen-ak View Post
    Couple of thoughts,

    My buddy Mike pointed out that guns are for buying, not selling...


    Most gun nuts can tell you about guns they should have kept and not sold. I can see a gun, not sure where the cash went though.

    Value depends on which side you are on...
    the econmic theory is that someone sells something because they feel thay are getting more money than it is worth. They buy something because they think it is worth more that they are paying for the item.
    Note the words, feel and think.....

    My question is, if you got a good deal, did the other guy get screwed on the price?
    HM i have paid to much for every gun ever bought... except the 1943 Kessler arms 32" bolt action 12 guage... 50 bucks shot the heck out of it... have traded a few off but never sold one. and often wonder why i keep the ones i do while i watch guys part out a nice old rifle and make a new one.. sell ones sitting around... i look at my Sako i don't shoot any more... Finnbearer not made any more... i look at my dads weatherby one of the last 100 to come from Germany... the mousers, and Springfield 45/70 NBF... and simply can not imagine parting them out... there is all the sentiment i them... but a part of me says each of these are OLD... and will be worth something?? one day?? for my kids?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sthrcave View Post
    I think that ammo is a better investment. Given the liberal agenda and the ever-present zombie threat, that stuff is going to be worth more than gold sooner or later....
    +100 on that! 10+ years ago I shot Bullseye. My .22 practice ammo cost about $10/500 now it's over $30!
    I may be slow, but I get where I'm going!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    When you sell it to me and I turn around and sell it to make a profit I guess it all depends a primo pre-64 brings real good money model 70 especially if itís a rare caliber ie 250-3000, 358, and a few other odd balls they chambered then you get into the whole pre-war post war model 70 the clover leaf tang versus the non clover leaf tang. The thing of it the model 54 was a great rifle too but folks turned there noes up on them, because they are not pre-64 model 70. I love the old model 54 love to find one in a 270 and 30-06 in good shape. Another one that is the Rodney Dangerfield of guns is the old model 30 built by Remington I seen more of those bought for the action it saddens me to see these fine old guns destroyed. I also like the old 721 but it could compete against the pre-64 it was good action and the basis for the famed model 700. I think if you have any model 99 savages built before the 80's will increase in price I have a 99C in a 284 and that thing is worth some money I paid 600 for it last time I looked they were selling around 900-1100. Another one is the model 88 or 100 308 sell all day long for 400-500 but find one in a 284, 358 you are talking 1500 plus for one makes you wish you picked them up when they were a dime a dozen. There are some rare gems in the ruger 77 as well one being the 284 they made a limited run back in the 70s I think and the 6.5 Remington mag was the other those two are worth a whole bunch of money due to their limited runs. I remember as a kid Sako pre Garcia were worth a ton of money I see them today and they really haven't gone up much. We also have rifles that decrease as soon as you walk out the store with it and that is weatherby guys will never be able to recoupe the 1,000 dollars plus they spent in the end they take a hit and lose money. One last note some of the older ruger 77 are starting to climb ie the old flat bolts and round tops I need to find me some before the go sky high.
    Not to divert the thread...but I have a decent Model 54 in 30 Government (that's what is says on the rcvr/bbl). If you'd like, drop a line on or after the 16th (when I'm back in AK)

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    Couple more to add in the savage 99's. They are 7mm-08, 22-250, 375 Winchester and 358 find any of those for a decent price better buy it. I'm always looking for odd ball whatever anyhow at a gunshow I found a savage 110 stamped 7mm express ie the 280 from my understanding they stamped them like that for a year. Another browning blr in the 284 pretty much anything factory chambered in the 284 will bring some good money. Another one to look for are the ruger 77 with the hollow bolt I think those were the dog leg bolts some of the 1st ones made. Also be on the look out for ruger limited runs remember the 7x64 those things are worth dome money people bought them for 500-600 if not cheaper they are selling for over a 1,000. Remember the limited run of no1 in the 35 whelen holy smokes. Just a little tid bit the ruger hawkeye in the 358 Winchester that was a limited run in 2008. They said they were going to make limited run of 300 h&h in the ruger 77. But ruger decided not to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    I have always been a firm believer that guns really do not depreciate unless really abused... but then i see some going dirt cheap also... so at what point does the value of that old firearm, that is no longer made start to increase? or does it? how old is old? ect...
    Not something that can be answered with a blanket statement. You're better off saying this is what I'm thinking of and what's the likelyhood of it appreciating? Honestly I wouldn't consider buying firearms for investment purposes if that's where you're heading with this. Very few guns could realisticly be consider investments and the ones I know of are VERY expensive. FINE English/European doubles, Fine English/European bolts (not Blaser I'm talking Rigby, WR, Jefferies, Hartman Weis, Fine Mausers, Holland, ect.), Winchester 21s (although I don't know why????), rare and old guns of fine condition that are sought after. For just guns that hold value or appreciate to some degree certain makes of Mauser actions in original condition of magnum length seem to do well. As do pre 64s with magnum actions (especially in earlier years). My Kimber 8400 or someone else's model 700, A bolt, Savage, model 77, modern model 70????? Forget about it. From an investment stand point you're waisting you're time. From a holding value stand point again not likely. If you're selling a modern factory rifle used be prepared for a sizable loss from what you paid for it. The loss will be relative to it's used condition. That said modern custom bolt rifles although they initially depreciate with use just like the factory seem to hold value better than modern factory rifles even used.

    Brett

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I think if you took say $500.00 and bought a gun, and took another $500.00 the same day and invested in a mutual stock fund, wait 40 years and then see what its worth, the mutual fund will likely gain enough to pay for all the guns you may have accumulated!
    This is the take away for the "investors" among us. Perhaps it's more of an "investment" when the wife or girlfriend is involved! "Trust me honey it's a great investment!"

    Brett

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    So someone tell me what to do. My father-in-law gave me two rifles. One is a pre 64 Model 70 .270 that has never been fired. The other is a Browning BL-22 he bought in 1972 that has aslo never been fired. I love to shoot guns but am torn between these two guns. Any help here?


    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Adam Barringer View Post
    Not something that can be answered with a blanket statement. You're better off saying this is what I'm thinking of and what's the likelyhood of it appreciating? Honestly I wouldn't consider buying firearms for investment purposes if that's where you're heading with this. Very few guns could realisticly be consider investments and the ones I know of are VERY expensive. FINE English/European doubles, Fine English/European bolts (not Blaser I'm talking Rigby, WR, Jefferies, Hartman Weis, Fine Mausers, Holland, ect.), Winchester 21s (although I don't know why????), rare and old guns of fine condition that are sought after. For just guns that hold value or appreciate to some degree certain makes of Mauser actions in original condition of magnum length seem to do well. As do pre 64s with magnum actions (especially in earlier years). My Kimber 8400 or someone else's model 700, A bolt, Savage, model 77, modern model 70????? Forget about it. From an investment stand point you're waisting you're time. From a holding value stand point again not likely. If you're selling a modern factory rifle used be prepared for a sizable loss from what you paid for it. The loss will be relative to it's used condition. That said modern custom bolt rifles although they initially depreciate with use just like the factory seem to hold value better than modern factory rifles even used.

    Brett

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