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Thread: BOG Meet

  1. #1
    Member muskeg's Avatar
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    Default BOG Meet

    This week in Ketchikan ....

    Who's going ..... ?

  2. #2
    Member muskeg's Avatar
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    no one ..... such an important meeting in regards to the future of the SE Black Bear hunt.

  3. #3
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by muskeg View Post
    no one ..... such an important meeting in regards to the future of the SE Black Bear hunt.
    welcome ot the club.... i would love to come down... but to far from Fairbanks, this time
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  4. #4
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    Default I was there

    For 2 days had to get back to the clients. Honestly, it was probably a waste of time for me but I had to defend my business. The guides are the most self-serving group I have ever met and I was embarassed for you the info they put forth in proposal 37. 50% loss on bears come on Johnnie, what a load. Let the cream rise to the top, you have a good product, people will buy. Easy. Static harvest? Rally? Try a 100% increase. Let people choose.

    Meeting with F&G to 'get on the same page'? Unreal. I now konw why regular folks have to unite. Don't know how it will turn out but hope your business sells for top dollar.

    Mike Warner
    Owner and RESIDENT of Coffman Cove Adventures on POW.
    Mike
    www.coffmancoveak.com
    Prince of Wales Island

  5. #5

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    The guides were claiming a 50% loss from the DIY crowd?

  6. #6

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    Ok, went and re-read prop 37.. Looks like the guides want all unguided hunters to go to drawing system. So basically, if you want to hunt POW and you didn't draw a tag; hunt with a guide to get your tag. Pretty clever. I could see how a business that caters to the DIY crowd would be rather ticked at the guides.

    The wording on 37:
    Implement a drawing permit program for unguided, nonresident black bear hunters in Southeast
    Alaska that will control their harvest level at a conservation based basis. The drawing permit
    program should have the flexibility for the Department of Fish and Game to effectively address
    certain geographical areas of concern as well as numbers of spring or fall hunters. The
    successful drawing permit applicants should be given a good educational brief about defining
    male from female bears in the field and how to reduce wounding loss as well as a better
    definition of the wounding loss law.
    I've met a bunch of non-res visiting bear hunters. As clueless as many of them are, I think 50% is a pretty emotional number not based on any facts.

    Quote from 37:
    As well, due to
    the shoreline and associated estuary habitats with densely wooded perimeters, the wounding loss
    of bears by unguided nonresident hunters is very high and may be well over fifty percent.

  7. #7
    Member muskeg's Avatar
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    The ADF&G and the BOG has done many many years of research on wounding loss. This is nothing new. Wounding loss on Black Bear in SE is estimated from 1 to 1 / 1 to 4 (for the non-guided hunter) .... this brought forth the wounding law enacted several years ago for SE Bear. This is not the APHA figures, it is State of AK figures just being stated in the Prop !!!!!!!

    If you disputed that, Gooch, why didn't you question the BOG about it during your time on the floor? All you stated is that your hunters have only wounded 'one' Bear. You didn't state how many years of sampling that would be.

    I don't know what your "100% increase" is referring to. Remember these Props are for ALL of SE Units 1 - 5 ... this is not specific to POW Unit #2. When I first started Guiding Unit #2 there were 2 active Guides ... now there are 10 or so (up for several reasons) with about a 100 Black Bear 'hunter' cap by by the USFS permits. Unit #1a has 3 Guides (down for several reasons) with about a 15 Black Bear 'hunter' cap by the USFS.

    There are several Draws in the State of AK that are weighted towards Guides ... nothing new.

    Testimony after testimony (not Guides) stated that the broad range of problems in SE Black Bear stems from the non-resident non-guided hunter. Several air charters testified stating problems with the non-resident non-guided hunter, actually stating that their problems had nothing to do with the Guided hunter.

    There was much testimony by most user groups ... Gooch was the only B&B (that markets 'self guided hunts') to speak ... not one Transporter testified.

    I predict #36 or #37 will pass with amendments.

    The Sept Road closure in Units 1,2,3 and 5 will sunset unless reinstated by the BOG ... neither #36 or #37 reinstates it.

    At the BOG meeting 2 years ago ... the BOG discussed the draw for SE Black Bear. The ADF&G and APHA props have been in the works since then. Lots of time, thought and research have gone into those Props.

    Gooch where is your Prop from the organized POW 'self guided hunt' providers? Or testimony from your local ADF&G advisory council? Several AC's from across SE testified as well as a rep from the Fed RAC. To bad you didn't stay till the end of testimony ... you would have certainly got your panties in a wad over the USFS testimony.

  8. #8
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    Johnnie,

    I did speak to the 50% as a load and it was well spelled out in my PC 87. As for my clients 'wounding' one bear I stated they shot at one and may or may not have hit it. It will be on the tape. I would love to see the wounding data even F&G folks I spoke to about it had no idea.

    The 100% increase was for all of Region 1 as shown in the F&G presentation not just POW. It is real and there as I spoke to.

    So here's the reason this stinks for local businesses. F&G and the BOG with whom you guys shamelessly share a bed will probably issue 150 tags for unit 2. If 100 go to the guides 50 remain. Sweet, nothing like making hunting more of a rich mans sport. I hope you have to pay for a guide anytime you want to travel to hunt. Shoud make your business sale more lucrative though ;-)

    As for the testimony regarding the self-guided hunters they were mostly in reference to areas near Ketchikan. Guides wouldn't hunt there but here on the island we hunt the same places as guides. The areas mentioned aren't where most folks hunt on POW. Be honest here John. The 'self-guided' hunter questions were totally led by the little bald fella in the corner on the board. And I quote 'So are your issues stemming from the unguided non resident hunter'? Only Mike Holman mentioned them in his testimony without being led.

    As you knew while writing your little jab there is no island organization however I will be working on getting the COC on board as an organization for the next meeting. Your little APHA is well organized and I was impressed with what you all did even thugh you have no regard for any other groups. I will do everything in my power if you guys get tags to change it in 2012. I will be better organized. As for me putting in a proposal there was no need as I want status quo. Put in a proposal for more of the same? I met with F&G agreed with their assessment and testified to that fact.

    Read loud and clear - I spoke out against your little fraternity getting gaurenteed tags. If you're that good of an option people will buy, run on your own merits. Putting out your hand asking for a freebie is not how a man should operate but I saw the dark side of the guide industry for sure on this one. I lost a lot of respect for the APHA and guide industry here.

    As a side note for folks reading this I did meet a guide who I had an excellent conversation with and will recommend from now on - Kirk Whitehead who is the only guide living on POW. Nice knowledgable guy. Either way I will be fine, my business is doing great ;-)
    Mike
    www.coffmancoveak.com
    Prince of Wales Island

  9. #9
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    Default

    What did the forest service want?
    Mike
    www.coffmancoveak.com
    Prince of Wales Island

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