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Thread: Nelchina Bou herd hunt Ideas

  1. #1
    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    Default Nelchina Bou herd hunt Ideas

    In line with some of what I said on the other thread, I would love to hear ideas others have as to what they think a solution to the Nelchina bou herd hunts could be. All serious ideas are welcome. But lets try to avoid insults and sarcasm please. Just some honest brainstorming. Avoid trashing others ideas, I would like to see people be able to share their thoughts on what might improve this hunt not what they think of some other individuals idea. So let the solutions role, who knows maybe someone has some ideas on this that might really change things, (not saying they will, but who knows).

    I know just discussing ideas here won't change things by itself, but I like to hear knew ideas, that is how you learn. After all at least speaking for myself I know I don't have all the answers.

    So ideas can be different types of hunt permits, seasons, restrictions, Draw, Registration, harvest, Points, anything and everything. If you honestly think the hunt is fine as it is then say so, but explain why and be honest. I have a lot more respect for someone who is honest and says I already get a permit and don't want to risk losing it then someone who try's to give some bull**** excuse as to why it's better for the animals or the community or the ecosystem.


  2. #2

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    Resident only drawing permit.

    Subsistence is an interesting principle and I think the word is thrown around a little loosely. I have a difficult time believing that everyone who hunts this herd is "subsisting" off of this food source (if I'm wrong, I'm sure everyone who paid $3+/gallon for gas to drive there and hunt will correct me). I think the idea of "subsistence use" is blurred with the idea of "traditional use" with this herd, which is cool, my traditions are very important to me and my family too.

    I have traditionally hunted moose in an area all my life, does that make me more entitled to hunt that area and species when it becomes a limited resource? Ooh, what about the areas where I've been hunting sheep all my life?

    It's a limited resource in a road accessibe area, make it a draw permit for Alaska Residents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akfishfool View Post
    In line with some of what I said on the other thread, I would love to hear ideas others have as to what they think a solution to the Nelchina bou herd hunts could be. All serious ideas are welcome
    Take about 10-20% of the hunt and make it "special", as much as people here hate special hunts.... youth, disabled, bow, muzzleloader.....

    And make the rest an even draw among all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Take about 10-20% of the hunt and make it "special", as much as people here hate special hunts.... youth, disabled, bow, muzzleloader.....

    And make the rest an even draw among all.
    Well in that case I want a bare hand, bowie knife, rock, and Caber only hunts!! Stipulation on the Caber hunts, you MUST wear a kilt and roll all of your rrrrrrr's

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
    Resident only drawing permit.

    Subsistence is an interesting principle and I think the word is thrown around a little loosely. I have a difficult time believing that everyone who hunts this herd is "subsisting" off of this food source (if I'm wrong, I'm sure everyone who paid $3+/gallon for gas to drive there and hunt will correct me). I think the idea of "subsistence use" is blurred with the idea of "traditional use" with this herd, which is cool, my traditions are very important to me and my family too.

    I have traditionally hunted moose in an area all my life, does that make me more entitled to hunt that area and species when it becomes a limited resource? Ooh, what about the areas where I've been hunting sheep all my life?

    It's a limited resource in a road accessibe area, make it a draw permit for Alaska Residents.
    This sums it up nicely.

  6. #6

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    The answer can be found in our very own State of Alaska Constitution. Many have not read it, many have taken a sworn oath to defend it (but some have not, because they are liars, cheats and predators) hence the infighting and discussion we are having now. Far too many Alaskans have no idea of their rights, priveleges or responsibiities to one another. Of course, some don't like it, so they are going to attempt to ammend the document to satisfy the radical bigots among us. Get ready, it's a coming.....soon.
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  7. #7

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    I think we should limit those who hunt this to folks that are born and raised in AK only, only live in towns with double lls in the name (Cantwell, Glenallen, Wasilla are all ok), and only those with their first names that begin with the letter L as well. Sorry I know no sarcasm but I can't help myself.

    On a real note this hunt will always be in flux when you have people constantly taking it to court regardless of what the outcome is. Good ideas for some are terrible ideas for others. Sad to say but I think it really has come to that.

    As for ideas from my limited POV, a registration hunt would be a disaster IMO, unless some stipulations were put into place.

    I do like the current idea where only one permit per household, but then only the permit holder should be restricted to hunting caribou and moose in unit 13 not the whole household. I know its a way to get less applicants, and its keeping me from applying that way so it is working, but I just hate the idea of being locked into hunting in one unit when there is so much state to explore. Plus if this is a subsistence hunt wouldn't make more sense for me to be able to shoot a moose in my own yard for free then to expend gas money to go shoot a caribou 200 miles up the road. So for me being locked into unit 13 for caribou and moose doesn't work for me, but it will for many and I hope many of my friends and family do apply for the 1 caribou for their household so I can go help with the hunt by skinning and packing.

    A straight up drawing will likely never happen given the subsistence title under this herd. I from what I understand of Vince's proposal think that could fly given that there is still a CHP so the AHTNA folks are happy. So as it stands right now, I think the 2011 plan is probably the most "fair" way to give everyone a chance at a Nelchina caribou. Just doesn't work for me, but that is fine as I now hunt caribou elsewhere, just requires a bit more footwork. No worries though I like hiking and packing cause I am sick like that

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    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    I thought your inital request for "not trashing others ideas" was noble. Didn't last very long.

    Much like most things in life their ain't no siver bullet, but I must say what's going on now is something I don't ever want to be a part of again. I drove up there yesterday and expereinced what folks have been writting about.
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  9. #9
    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    That is exactly why I want to discuss changes. I henestly don't care if I never hunt the Nelchina herd as long as the hunt exists in a way that encourages that kind of behavior. I know some people will always behave like that, but the current hunt design just makes it worse.
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  10. #10

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    I think what they have now isn't all that bad (not the best by a long shot, but better than it has been in my opinion) if one big aspect was "fixed". Eliminate the quota portion of the system. Only issue enough permits to achieve approximately the correct number of animals they want taken from the herd. The one and only thing causing this chaos we have seen over the first couple weekends of the winter hunt this year is the quota. If people were not so worried about possibly missing out on their opportunity, they wouldn't be in such a hurry to rush up there right away or take shots they have no reason taking.

    Just as with other permit hunts out there, there will be years when more than the average are taken and years when less are taken. I honestly don't think they have nearly enough knowledge of the herds to really know whether 40,000 animals is exactly the right amount or if 35,000 or 45,000 is just fine.

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    Biologist say "X" # of 'Bou should be killed this year.

    Take total human population of those that LIVE in Unit 13 by virtue of the almighty Census, and divide that by the population of the rest of the State (using same census, yes Alaska).

    Alloc the % of Unit 13 Residents from the above formula to "Subsistance Tier 1, 2, 3 whatever you wanna call it"

    Alloc the rest of them to DRAW only - make it available to Res and Non Res just like all the other hunts, BUT make the Non-Res Tag for UNIT 13 $2000 Each Bull Only (if they drew one), and it has to be Caribou Specific and Unit Specific (no trading tag prices for different animal of lower price). Run it like Colorado does and make the people that are NoRez and putting in for the hunt pay UPFRONT before the draw and then refund back if no draw.

    Suggest to all Hunters that meat taken on this hunt be donated to "Insert your favorite Village Name Here"

    The extra $ made above and beyond normal tag prices for this "Hunt/Harvest/Cull" should be used to fund an FW Officer that would be directly associated with this hunt (for all the people seeing lawbreakers but doing nothing about).

    There - all fixed - every user gets some skid in the game and the rest of you all can go pound sand

  12. #12
    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    I like the percent of pop idea for tier tags, I'm sure it would be met with screams of injustice by someone, but I like it. Besides anyone who wants in GMU 13 could still put in for a draw tag and have a fair and even shot like the rest. $2000 for caribou tag might be steep, but it would certainly thin out the nonres tags, and they still could do it if they wanted to pay. I really like the idea of more fw cop presence. I know they are there, but if the hunt is going to be managed like it currently is they need more enforcement there. And for those that say we should do more enforcement ourselves, I agree to a point, but you do have to exercise some judgement when confronting an armed individual who obviously has little respect for the law. Sometimes you can try to educate the ignorant, sometimes your asking for a shoot out!!! Ive been shot at enough in this life, I would like to avoid it when possible in the future.
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  13. #13

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    For discussion's sake...

    Why should unit 13 residency have anything to do with the entitlement to hunt this herd?

  14. #14
    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    The general reason it is included is because of the subsistence/ community harvest hunts that have been in place for so long now, I personally don't agree with that for anyone living on the road system. But the feeling is I would guess that any attempt to do away with them totally would be met with crazy resistance by those who do those hunts and don't want to give them up. But if you are going to use logic like that then people like me should have priority to hunt the 40 mile herd. Since it is in a super strict management mode right now. After all we only get a quota of 800 or so for the 40 mile herd and that is way less than the Nelchina. and we still have tons of people from unit 13 and Anchorage area up here hunting it. In fact in the winter hunt I see two people from south central hunting for every one interior resident. So obviously its not too far for them to drive.
    60% of men don't know what they have until they lose it
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    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    the comment about 40 mile herd being only for interior was only as a comparison to show the absurdity of that kind of restriction, and the double standard being applied. I would like to see all those hunts as open draw or registration equal access for all.
    60% of men don't know what they have until they lose it
    15% aren't sure but figure it's better than nothing
    25% know exactly what they have and would do anything to lose it or give it to someone else

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