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Thread: Alska Game managment in terms I can understand

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    Member sameyer's Avatar
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    Default Alska Game managment in terms I can understand

    Today, at a Chamber of Commerce luncheon in Kenai, Congressman Don Young was asked what he thought about the issue of State and Federal game management in Alaska. I will paraphrase here as I do not have a direct quote. His reply was, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game doesn’t manage game here, they distribute it. They have done nothing towards enhancement of game, as they do in the rest of the country.
    Finally someone has come up with the simple terms I have been looking for in my head for years, to describe the no management issues in this state. Distribution to whining special interest is the Department of Fish and Games stock in trade. It has been for so many years it isn’t funny. So here we are, what once was the greatest game field on the North American continent reduced to waiting to see who spends enough time politicking to get allocated. Yeah, spend all the time you want talking about being a voice and showing up, blah, blah, everyone knows it doesn’t make any difference and what we have today proves it.

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    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    HELL, whoever published the game and fish reg booklets can't even do it in laymens terms. We have to take a **** lawyer with us hunting and fishing to interpret the print in those god forsaken pieces of art.
    I can do the impossible right away. Be patient, miracles take me a bit longer.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If we back back to a hundred thousand folks liveing here again we will also have the greatest hunting again.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    If we back back to a hundred thousand folks liveing here again we will also have the greatest hunting again.
    Good idea, you go first! <grin>

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sameyer View Post
    Today, at a Chamber of Commerce luncheon in Kenai, Congressman Don Young was asked what he thought about the issue of State and Federal game management in Alaska. I will paraphrase here as I do not have a direct quote. His reply was, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game doesn’t manage game here, they distribute it. They have done nothing towards enhancement of game, as they do in the rest of the country.
    That's about the only thing I have ever heard come out of that guys mouth that I would say is true, and that I agree with.

    As long as we have a system and mentality represented by ADF& GAME, along with the BOGAME, who's PRIMARY focus is on the maximum possible extraction of the "RESOURCE"... we will have this. It's all about our collective mentality and how we view our enviroment. If we the people wanted it, we could have a Division of Wildlife who's PRIMARY focus is to manage and protect all the species in a biologically and ecologically sound manner for the good of the overall system, and who's SECONDARY focus is human consumption, but we don't. We are all about raping and pillaging in this State... We all want to be able to kill everything we want whenever we want and we don't like it when someone tries to tell us we can't hunt "our resource" to our hearts content. But we get pissed when we see someone else catching too many fish or shooting too many grouse, or when one group is granted all the caribou in a given unit. We can change the way we approach things here, or we can watch ourselves run the ecology of this State into the ground. It's our choice.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Dude, I choose FOOD. Grow more and eat more. Improve habitat improve game densities, improve harvest numbers! Moose and Bou it's whats for dinner!

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Dude, I choose FOOD. Grow more and eat more. Improve habitat improve game densities, improve harvest numbers! Moose and Bou it's whats for dinner!
    It's what I eat for dinner too dude. But the human population is growing without limitation, and the wildlife population is not. Shooting all the wolves with the idea of growing more moose to shoot is not sustainable, even if it had any basis in bilolgical reality, which it does not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Shooting all the wolves with the idea of growing more moose to shoot is not sustainable, even if it had any basis in bilolgical reality, which it does not.
    Never been to Sweden, eh? You really do need to get out more often. Even in your backyard there is clear and convincing evidence of fact, that Predator Control works and is a very small snapshot of how it does indeed have "biological reality". Ask your local Bio, for a run down how this all works.
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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Akers, They find more ways to make up the reasons that the moose are dying off, ( BROWSE)

    I get so tired of man trying to take control of mother nature.

    First it's predators, then when they are gone there are too many and the land won't support them so they put in a special season to cull them, so on, and so on. It just digusts me.

    It does remind me of farming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_skipper View Post
    Akers, They find more ways to make up the reasons that the moose are dying off, ( BROWSE)

    I get so tired of man trying to take control of mother nature.

    First it's predators, then when they are gone there are too many and the land won't support them so they put in a special season to cull them, so on, and so on. It just digusts me.

    It does remind me of farming.
    It is not that at all. Go back to the OP in this thread. Read closely what DY had to say. He is exactly correct in his analysis. It is that our State Officials have chosen to Manage People....Nothing more. They have found it very easy to Manage People from their cubicles. If one were to start managing Land, Water, Fish and Wildlife....well that would mean having to actually go outside...Do you think they want to do this?
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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    ADFG doesn't manage game? Hooey.

    Currently about 10% of our state is undergoing one form of predator control or another, and more areas have predation control implementation plans in the works.

    I certainly don't agree with all those plans or control efforts, for the same reasons iofthetaiga has concerns, but to say the Division of Wildlife Conservation doesn't manage game is a stretch. I mean, we don't have biologists collaring sheep, caribou, moose, bears, wolves, doing habitat studies, research etc...without that being a large part of managing game.

    And certainly ADFG or DWC has nothing at all to do with "distributing" or allocating game. That is the purview of the politically appointed Board of Game. And it is that Board (in general, as a body, not knocking individual members) where most of our problems lie, because when money and partisan politics end up being the primary methods we determine wildlife mgmt decisions it's never good long term for the resource. Or for us residents either in so many instances.

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    Member sameyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    It is not that at all. Go back to the OP in this thread. Read closely what DY had to say. He is exactly correct in his analysis. It is that our State Officials have chosen to Manage People....Nothing more. They have found it very easy to Manage People from their cubicles. If one were to start managing Land, Water, Fish and Wildlife....well that would mean having to actually go outside...Do you think they want to do this?
    Without question this is part of the problem, one needs look no further than the brown bear issue on the Kenai Peninsula. Look outside for God’s sake. Being a state employee myself and working a position where field work is absolutely critical, I can tell you, those who run the department would much rather you sit in front of a computer and make **** up than risk you going into the field and actually doing the job.

    Hopefully no one makes the mistake of blaming the state biologists for the department’s lack of management. For the most part, at least in my opinion, these folks are hard working professionals that want to do the job right. But, they are administered by political hacks who are not nearly as interested in the department they manage as they are in there own political future. The same can be said of the board of game. Not all, obviously there are some very good folks in some of these positions. But most are not Statesman or Stateswomen; something that seems practically a thing of the past.
    Having watched game populations decline in Alaska for 40 years it is mind numbing to see how virtually every other state in the union has enhanced their game populations. Many profess that “it is different in Alaska.” No, it isn’t. The habitat in Alaska, in spite of the development that has taken place, is in no way commiserating with the game population dynamics. Lack of pro-active habitat development can certainly be part of the issue but not all. “Management by conceding to those who squeal like pigs is distribution, no more, no less.
    Go ahead and blame the board of game if it makes you feel better but it is unconscionable that a supposedly professional state department, charged with management of a resource, cannot represent itself strongly enough to override political BS in the interest of the resource.
    One could also question why Alaska is the only state in the union that even recognizes “subsistence” or personal use. “Subsistence whaling” with Caterpillar front end loaders, please. Of course we are also the only state that pays its citizenry a dividend for showing up. In the long haul, it is the entitlement mentality of many here that is ultimately going to be the demise of many of the things that could be saved if we could just recognize it for what it is.

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    Member cdubbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sameyer View Post
    Having watched game populations decline in Alaska for 40 years it is mind numbing to see how virtually every other state in the union has enhanced their game populations.
    They've done this by decimating predators, planting food crops or winter feeding, and making it harder to hunt. In which other state can you hunt 10 big game species in a given year without having to draw? I know a lot of people up here think it's all going to hell, but we can get back on track if we stop cutting each other's throats and work together. How that can be achieved, I don't know.
    "– Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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    Member sameyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubbin View Post
    They've done this by decimating predators, planting food crops or winter feeding, and making it harder to hunt. In which other state can you hunt 10 big game species in a given year without having to draw? I know a lot of people up here think it's all going to hell, but we can get back on track if we stop cutting each other's throats and work together. How that can be achieved, I don't know.
    Yep, and for $25.00 no less, well except for musk ox. That in itself is absolutley ridiculous, we want all of our wildlife desires to be met and don't want to pay for it. The first step might be having a board of game composed of people with no dog in the fight. Until we have people who can detach their personal interest and manage according to the good of the wildlife in this state we will continue on this path. But, as I've already pointed out, there seems to be a shortage of statesman and stateswoman these days.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Every one to take the famed Kodiak Brown Bear even if a six footer is the Monarch of Deads Mans Bay,by god its a Kodiak Brownie
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    And certainly ADFG or DWC has nothing at all to do with "distributing" or allocating game. That is the purview of the politically appointed Board of Game. And it is that Board (in general, as a body, not knocking individual members) where most of our problems lie, because when money and partisan politics end up being the primary methods we determine wildlife mgmt decisions it's never good long term for the resource. Or for us residents either in so many instances.
    What DOES the Alaska Dept. of Fish & Game do, exactly?

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Matt, is that a serious question? If it is I'll be happy to give some kind of answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    What DOES the Alaska Dept. of Fish & Game do, exactly?
    Matt and all others. Don't take anyone else's word for an answer to your question, because what they will tell you is; what they think is going on. Do yourself a favor and go to your local ADF&G office. Spend as much time as you possibly can, watching what goes on. Ask questions and don't be afraid to open up a few doors or peek around the back rooms. There is no substitute for seeing things for yourself, firsthand. Don't allow others to inform you of what they honestly don't know!
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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Perhaps some of you more intelligent folks can suggest ways F&G could "manage" our wildlife? Habitat enhancement ideas? Gotta be cost effective!

    All this state can do is manage human HARVEST. They can also do some pred control. After that it's mostly up to nature, the weather, reproduction, etc. Ain't enough money to have any effect on those things in a large mostly still wilderness state like ours.

    I'm ready for another Joe Miller to run against Don.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Perhaps some of you more intelligent folks can suggest ways F&G could "manage" our wildlife? Habitat enhancement ideas? Gotta be cost effective!

    All this state can do is manage human HARVEST. They can also do some pred control. After that it's mostly up to nature, the weather, reproduction, etc. Ain't enough money to have any effect on those things in a large mostly still wilderness state like ours.
    Ok, I'll ignore your accusation of intelligence, and bite anyway.

    F&G should focus on habitat, habitat, habitat. We should stop suppressing wildfires and tell Princess Cruises to shove off when they complain to our senators and congresspeople that they can't see Denali from the bus windows. We should let fires burn when and where Mother Nature determines it is time. We should allow for natural vegetation succession to occur. We should accept that wildlife populations will naturally fluctuate and shift from one area to another and back again over time. We should stop viewing wildlife populations as a farmed resource for the sole purpose of human consumption. We should stop "managing" them to death. We do need to control humans though, because humans are the top predator in the system (although they try to blame in on the evil wolves and bears).

    I do like your reference to managing human harvest too. I think that's a great idea. I say we start in places like Paxon/Tangle Lakes and 40 Mile. I suggest no closed season, and a liberal limit, say 2 per day 4 in possession? Or do you think that's too restrictive? I don't think we should allow the taking of adults with children though. And large accessories such as $60,000.00 pickup trucks, 5th wheel campers etc. should be destroyed in the field so as to eliminate their trophy value...

    That might be a good start.

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