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Thread: Make the Nelchina caribou hunt a youth hunt

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    Member Laker Taker's Avatar
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    Default Make the Nelchina caribou hunt a youth hunt

    P1010363.jpgP1010370.jpgI took my family caribou hunting this past weekend with the intent of letting our two oldest boys shoot their own caribou. We managed to get away from the crazyness of the Denali Highway and have a great hunt. Our 11 year old shot his first caribou and our 12 year old shot his first mature bull. I don't think that I have ever seen the boys so excited!

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    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    Those are a couple real nice bulls Laker Taker. And the fact that your boys got to take them in a family hunt makes them the greatest trophies you will ever get. good job on the family outing.

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    Nice harvest congrats to you and your kids.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    I like your idea. Why not start this hunt as a youth hunt with 1/4 or so of the allotted harvest being given out as a youth drawing hunt. After that open it up to the rest of the tag winners.

    After doing the Delta Youth Management hunt this fall with my neice, I would love to see more opportunities out there for the kids to get a chance at a successful hunt that won't break the bank.

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    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    gret idea on the youth only tags, But yuou would also need a week or two of youth only hunting considering the reputation of that hunt. It would be great to have a hunt with such a high success rate to help get young hunters into the sport. Say maybe a week or two at the end of October or middle of august. They could even make it a once a lifetime deal, but it would really help younger hunters that don't have super dad hunters a chance to get out and bag a caribou. I would also recommend a training class and rifle range time as mandatory precursors to the hunt. Then when they have completed the requirements give them a tag and let them start the right way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerod View Post
    I like your idea. Why not start this hunt as a youth hunt with 1/4 or so of the allotted harvest being given out as a youth drawing hunt. After that open it up to the rest of the tag winners.
    There was a proposal submitted to the BOG to do somewhat what you're saying here. Don't think it went anywhere, so looks like you (and I) are in the minority of the current thinking here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akfishfool View Post
    gret idea on the youth only tags, But yuou would also need a week or two of youth only hunting considering the reputation of that hunt.
    Yeah, that was in the recent bog proposal too.

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    I'd be interested in knowing the reason it was voted down. Is that information available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerod View Post
    I'd be interested in knowing the reason it was voted down. Is that information available?
    Got me. I would like to know too.

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    because special interest hunts are a sham and should be voted down in every case. Why do we as hunters insist on trying to segment the game as much as possible? Kids have TONS of opportunities. You 11 year old can be entered into the draw AND he can punch any tag of YOURS as well. He can also punch your wife's tags as long as she is present at the time.

    There are TONS of people who arguably "deserve" special hunts. Disabled soldiers, inner city youth, children, bow hunters, black powder hunters, children with disabilities, firemen, police, Vets.... The list is endless, the only FAIR thing is just to give everyone the same shot. I would expect that you dads out there will let your kids punch your tags.

    This thread is a prime example why it isn't needed, the OP had his kids take the animals and didn't need a "youth only" hunt to get it done. Is the goal to get kids out hunting or teach them the Alaskan tradition of entitlement early?

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    I agree with LuJon, no more "advantage hunts". Well written!

    The Delta Youth Moose Hunt was instituted against the wishes of the local AC. It was not well received because it knocked a lot of our seniors out of a hunt they really enjoyed. The community was irrate and F&G called community meetings to smooth over the matter. Troopers attended to protect F&G personnel. F&G offered the elderly a "Geezer Hunt" and they said: "hell no, we only want equality".

    My blood boils every time I think of the underhanded efforts of F&G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    because special interest hunts are a sham and should be voted down in every case. Why do we as hunters insist on trying to segment the game as much as possible? Kids have TONS of opportunities. You 11 year old can be entered into the draw AND he can punch any tag of YOURS as well. He can also punch your wife's tags as long as she is present at the time.

    There are TONS of people who arguably "deserve" special hunts. Disabled soldiers, inner city youth, children, bow hunters, black powder hunters, children with disabilities, firemen, police, Vets.... The list is endless, the only FAIR thing is just to give everyone the
    same shot. I would expect that you dads out there will let your kids punch your tags.

    This thread is a prime example why it isn't needed, the OP had his kids take the animals and didn't need a "youth only" hunt to get it done. Is the goal to get kids out hunting or teach them the Alaskan tradition of entitlement early?
    Well said Lujon. Couldn't agree more.

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    My son also shot a caribou last weekend. We hunted the "subsistence" not the Tier I or II so we were limited on area. Out of the hundreds of caribou seen, we saw 14 in Federal areas and my son was able to connect with one. My daughter was to get one in Sept. It's a blast seeing your kids get involved in the sport you love.

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    I was able to take my 5 year old out on this hunt this year for his first caribou hunt. He helped out (a little) and was proud as heck. But I agree with lujon, no special hunts!
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    I see your point with the special interest hunts. My thought was that this hunt, along with some others in the state, are inundated with complaints about overcrowding, slaughters, unethical hunters, etc. This is due to the season being condensed into a short time frame, easy access and lack of management, or at least the inability to find a way to effectively manage the hunts. I'm always seeing threads and ideas on how to go about cleaning up the mess of the subsistance vs. draw vs. entitlement of who gets to hunt there. Kids are our future of hunting, so we can utilize hunts like this to try and bring them into the sport, which is why I'd rather see "special" hunts be created for them and no so much firemen, seniors, military etc. If the consensus is to not have any type of special interest hunt, then so be it.

    I guess I'm a little biased being a dad. I would gladly let my children punch my tags, and now that my oldest will be 10, she'll start putting in for her own as well.

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    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    This has always been a "youth hunt" for my family.

    When my father was a "youth" he was hunting unit 13 with my grandad. When I was a youth I was hunting unit 13 with my father and grandad. Now that my children are "youth" they hunt unit 13 with their father and grandad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerod View Post
    I see your point with the special interest hunts. My thought was that this hunt, along with some others in the state, are inundated with complaints about overcrowding, slaughters, unethical hunters, etc. This is due to the season being condensed into a short time frame, easy access and lack of management, or at least the inability to find a way to effectively manage the hunts. I'm always seeing threads and ideas on how to go about cleaning up the mess of the subsistance vs. draw vs. entitlement of who gets to hunt there. Kids are our future of hunting, so we can utilize hunts like this to try and bring them into the sport, which is why I'd rather see "special" hunts be created for them and no so much firemen, seniors, military etc. If the consensus is to not have any type of special interest hunt, then so be it.

    I guess I'm a little biased being a dad. I would gladly let my children punch my tags, and now that my oldest will be 10, she'll start putting in for her own as well.
    Jerod, Remember the 20B moose youth hunts? the BOG has been dead set against making anymore since those ones were so grievously abused by parents, though they only lasted ~2 years, there were very FEW youth actually hunting, people borrowing kids to go out and hunt, and other problems...


    Long and short, Delta is a lot more regualted and the only reason why it works. the issues that came up in 20B and get disscussed at each BOG meeting that youth hunts come up... pretty much insure that no more youth only hunts will be in the mix for some time
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    In both the examples above of kids hunting listed as reasons against youth hunts. The caribou harvested WERE part of a special limited hunt already, ie. Federal subsistance, and a nelchina tier II permit. Those are very limited access hunts. So I am sorry but saying no special hunts is garbage Those hunts are only available to a small percentage of hunters. I have no problem letting my kid "punch my tag", but ... 1) I don't want to take my kid out to teach him the joy of hunting in the nelchina and 40 mile hunts as they exist now and have him either dodge bullets or have stalk after stalk ruined by some spray and pray ***hole shooting over his head. 2) There are very few opportunities for those who cannot afford fly outs to shoot a caribou on a limited family budget that are not like the hunts described above. 3) If I did qualify for a nelchina permit I would happily let my kid do the shooting, but I still would be in favor of a youth program that allowed the hunt to be done in a safe and responsible manner like I stated above as conditions for a youth hunt. ( and tier I is not an option for me for reasons I have already stated)

    Saying no special/ limited access hunts and then using two examples of special/limited access hunts as an example of why is poor logic. The fact is many of us cannot afford the majority of hunts in alaska for caribou. That is why the "special" hunts are so coveted and fought over. And before someone says haul rd. how many ten year olds do you know who can either hike in 5 miles or shoot a bow with enough strength and proficiency to get a haul rd bou. there might be a couple, but the vast majority couldn't. Heck most of you would never hike in because you know how brutal it is!!! I am not saying we have to take thousands of permits away from others to do this but be realistic, while it may be possible to get your kid to punch a tag it is very difficult for the majority of hunters out there. And what about kids who want to hunt but don't have parents that do. I thought we were supposed to be trying to educate and grow new hunters for the next generation. Having somebody who already gets access to a limited hunt, or can afford a flyout decide that no one else needs to have a chance to help a young hunter get there first animal is either very narrow sighted, or just plain selfish. ( I got mine so everyone else stay out of MY hunt)

    Andrew

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    Member akfishfool's Avatar
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    Vince. I understand the problems the past has presented, but that is why I listed the requirements that I did above in my earlier post. Make them attend a Nelchina hunt class and a rifle range course. you could still put limits on a family take, or on how many filled tags an adult could supervise. But the reasons stated about No more special interest hunts is BULL they already are!!!

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akfishfool View Post
    Vince. I understand the problems the past has presented, but that is why I listed the requirements that I did above in my earlier post. Make them attend a Nelchina hunt class and a rifle range course. you could still put limits on a family take, or on how many filled tags an adult could supervise. But the reasons stated about No more special interest hunts is BULL they already are!!!
    and how do you make it fly with the C&T needs of the copper basin folks? sorry this is still a SUBSISTENCE hunt for subsistence needs. written in Alaska Statute. and in part protected to some under the Alaska Constitution.. you guys can Vent and PLAN and WISH

    all you want. but until folks start attending AC and BOG meetings, you will never really understand how or why things work, till then... might as well fart into the wind and wish it's did not smell back ...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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