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Thread: point system? we need to do better!!

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    Default point system? we need to do better!!

    I don't really know what the effects are on the point system. But after being here for 20 years and submitting my Buffalo and other draws every year and not getting one and this year reading that a least 6 folks in the upper North got 5 draws each!!! It does not pass the smell test!!! I just can't see 6 folks getting that lucky and I personally have talked to people who draw more than once every year. An I crying foul? No I am just saying give me a far shot, everyone!!!! to include the guides. This State in growing so fast but the game or most of it is not keeping pace!!! My grand kids will not have this when they grow up!!!
    I know how big this state is and understand that you can and will not make everyone happy. Some think they deserve this just because!!! As long as it's far to EVERYONE which does not include your skin color. thanks

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    How is a drawing not fair? Like you said, you can't make everyone happy, and I guarantee even with the point system people are going to call foul play, maybe even more so than with the current system.

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    Default the smell test

    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    How is a drawing not fair? Like you said, you can't make everyone happy, and I guarantee even with the point system people are going to call foul play, maybe even more so than with the current system.
    Ok I didn't say the draw system was unfair!! what I said is the results of at least last years draws where 5 folks not just regular people drew 5 DIFFERENT TAGS!!! that's like more that luck???? AS LONG AS IT'S FAIR TO EVERYONE ! NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE!!! NOT BASED ON WHO YOU ARE, OR HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE DONATED OR HAVE

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    Like I said 5 folks who are not just regular folks draw 5 different tags is more than luck!!!!! AS LONG AS IT IS FAIR AND DOSN'T DEPEND ON WHO YOU ARE, WHERE YOU LIVE, YOUR RACE, AND HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE DONATED!!! There are more people than game!!!! Everyone is trying to get their piece! Any some are just trying to fill the freezer. Troopers have a big job and can't do it all. look at the posts from the latest hunt. Some people have no respect for others or the game!!! It only takes a few to ruin it for others!!

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    Default the smell test

    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    How is a drawing not fair? Like you said, you can't make everyone happy, and I guarantee even with the point system people are going to call foul play, maybe even more so than with the current system.
    Ok I didn't say the draw system was unfair!! what I said is the results of at least last years draws where 5 folks not just regular people drew 5 DIFFERENT TAGS!!! that like more that luck???? AS LONG AS IT'S FAIR TO EVERYONE ! NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE!!! NOT BASED ON WHO YOU ARE, OR HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE DONATED OR HAVE

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    Take it how you want to take, I thought in your post you were implying you wanted a fair shot at a tag, so IMO if you entered in a drawing you had a fair chance, just like the rest of the people that put in, what else can be done to make it more fair for everyone? A point system? So since I am a young guy how would it be fair for me to be drawing against an older hunter with a bunch of points making his odds better than mine? That is exactly what I define as unfair as I feel that everyone should have an equal shot at any given permit, year in and year out. As for odds, I have not crunched the numbers, but I would think that the odds of a person drawing 5 permits in one year are probably not much different than the odds of drawing a bison permit after 20 tries, sorry to say, it is luck of the draw my friend

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    Member Rich_in_AK's Avatar
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    Everyone seems to have their own definition of "fair". Usually that definition just happens to be the one that will benfit them.

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_in_AK View Post
    Everyone seems to have their own definition of "fair". Usually that definition just happens to be the one that will benfit them.
    I agree with that statement, think about this scenario, a guy puts in for 10 years with out winning a tag, he complains about how unfair the draw is, the next year he wins 4 tags, do you think he will still complain about the fairness of it? I don't think so. If a guy would just look at the percentages and the chances of being drawn, he would have a lot more understanding of how bad your chances actually are of getting drawn, especially some of the hunts that are 1 percent or less, which a lot hunts are.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Intresting how you said the pop is growing and game not keeping pace and grandkids won't get to hunt but you still want to take game.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwilkin View Post
    Ok I didn't say the draw system was unfair!! what I said is the results of at least last years draws where 5 folks not just regular people drew 5 DIFFERENT TAGS!!! that like more that luck???? AS LONG AS IT'S FAIR TO EVERYONE ! NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE!!! NOT BASED ON WHO YOU ARE, OR HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE DONATED OR HAVE
    There are a number of previous threads on this. If you really look at the numbers, it isn't all the crazy to see how a few people could get drawn for multiple permits in a single year. There are 10's of thousands of people who apply for permits. Odds are that some of them will get drawn a few times. People who live in remote areas often have access to hunts that have a much higher percentage chance of drawings. Same goes for people who have the financial ability and desire to get to the remote hunts with higher draw percentages. Some of those draw hunts that people are getting as part of their multiple permits have a 50% or higher chance of being drawn. It doesn't bother me that they get a bunch of those since in most cases, I can't get there anyway so they are not taking anything away from me. As others have said, you just need to check the odds of the hunt you are putting in for. They are listed on the back of the permit hunt supplement each year (based on the previous year). The popular hunts have a VERY VERY VERY slim chance of someone being drawn.

    Maybe there should be a little more transparent (to use the hip term of the time) means of verifying that the drawing process is done properly, but just having doubts in it does not mean we should up and throw out the entire thing.

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    Default I still need to fill my freezer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Intresting how you said the pop is growing and game not keeping pace and grandkids won't get to hunt but you still want to take game.
    Yes I want my grandkids to be able to hunt down the road but I still need to fill my freezer!!! come on now!!!!!!!! let use some common sense!

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    I was recently at an NRA fund raising event in Cordova. I bought a LOT of tickets for the different gun drawings and hunting gear and didn't even get a sniff. A kid behind me won three guns including the grand prize Tommy Gun, There was another guy won two guns. Then this one lady must have won 10 times in the gear drawing. Again, nothing for me or anyone at our table. Just the luck of the draw.

    Now you put in for a Bison draw where the odds are less than 1% and in 20 years you haven't drawn? That is to be expected actually. On a 1 % draw, it would take 100 years for everyone who applied to get drawn. For half the people to be drawn, it would take 50 years, still longer than most people's hunting careers. So it's really just a crapshoot.

    No amount of preference points will give you better odds, in fact, it might decrease your odds as some people will start putting in for the draw that didn't before, just to collect preference points. The most successful way to get drawn is to put in for hunts that have the best odds, which may be what those people who drew 5 tags in one year did. (which may or may not have happened. I don't put much faith into hearsay evidence)

    Think of lottery ticket buyers who have won more than once. And then think of the 10's of millions who have never won. Does that mean lotteries are rigged? or unfair? I think it means that some people just had extraordinary luck and beat the odds more than once.
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    Do we have to go through this CRAP every single year from now on?! Good Lord!
    It's a totally luck-of-the-draw system. What's unfair about that?!

    Taylor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwilkin View Post
    but I still need to fill my freezer!!!
    Notch a harvest tag, then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Taylor View Post
    Do we have to go through this CRAP every single year from now on?! Good Lord!
    It's a totally luck-of-the-draw system. What's unfair about that?!

    Taylor
    That's the question, and a legitimate one at that! How is it that certain individuals seem to draw tags on a consistent basis? Is there a tactic of some sort that makes it more likely to draw? There is an individual with a name very similar to mine who has drawn "very popular/low percentage" tags four of the last six years. I don't know how this person is so successful at drawing these tags, but it sure seems that they are doing something different than I am.
    Last edited by Frostbitten; 10-26-2010 at 12:43. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Taylor View Post
    Do we have to go through this CRAP every single year from now on?! Good Lord!
    It's a totally luck-of-the-draw system. What's unfair about that?!

    Taylor
    Yup........

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwilkin View Post
    Yes I want my grandkids to be able to hunt down the road but I still need to fill my freezer!!! come on now!!!!!!!! let use some common sense!
    Holy Moly, if I needed to draw tags to fill my freezer I would never ever have anything in my freezer. While the draw hunts are nice they are really just icing on the cake of all the other normal hunts that are available to each and every Alaskan. Plan to get to know for open harvest areas well and plan on hunting them and if you are tasked with the burden of drawing a tag then change plans from there. But to base all your freezer filling on a 2% draw tag is pretty brave. Especially that by rights it would be 50 years before you could really complain about not being drawn.

    And yes Marc we MUST talk this out. Though if you gave each Wiggy Alaska customer a number on the reciepts each time they buy something from the store and at the end of the year had a drawing for a new wiggy's bag or the like and I didn't win you better believe I would be screaming for preference points on the next go-round

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Taylor View Post
    Do we have to go through this CRAP every single year from now on?! Good Lord!
    It's a totally luck-of-the-draw system. What's unfair about that?!

    Taylor
    Yes Marc, Yes we do. Earlier every year. The supplements aren't even out, but its corrupt! Corrupt I say!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska_Lanche View Post
    And yes Marc we MUST talk this out. Though if you gave each Wiggy Alaska customer a number on the reciepts each time they buy something from the store and at the end of the year had a drawing for a new wiggy's bag or the like and I didn't win you better believe I would be screaming for preference points on the next go-round
    All I know is that I never drew a single tag in Alaska before I bought my first Wiggy's bag. Since then, I've drawn a total of 8. You tell me if there's a connection . Seems like more than chance.

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    A draw is a draw it's like rolling dice sometimes you win sometimes you loose. In vegas if you win a bunch its called a streak, it happens. A few years back I drew tags every year, even got a bison and a moose the same year, wife got a 20 a caribou tag same year her first year applying. What are the odds? Last few years I have drawn nothing, even on good odds hunts It's not unfair it's just the odds of chance. I drew my bison tag after only 6 years of applying, and if it's the only one I ever get I'm glad it was then because I got to take it wioth all my kids there. I will continue to apply once I am eligible again and I hope I draw again, but if I don't oh well.

    Life is not fair sometimes you loose sometimes you win sorry but deal with it. example... I would do almost anything to take a sheep just once. I probably never will, why... Because I was disabled in the Marines. My hip and lower back were turned into hamburger. Is it fair that I will probably never get to take a sheep like i've dreamed of since I was a kid..... NO ( I would make the same choice again too) But oh well thats life I will play the hand I was dealt, and do the other things I can. I will be thankful I get to hunt at all. I look for other opportunity, I will go stand in line overnight in -40 for a minto moose permit so my freezer is full, my kids eat well and I will get to enjoy a beautiful hunt with very few if any other people around. In my opinion I have it pretty **** good.

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