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Thread: Convert Grumman to Square Stern/Register in AK/Power with 2 stroke???

  1. #1
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    Default Convert Grumman to Square Stern/Register in AK/Power with 2 stroke???

    Hey Guys, I'm down in Tampa, but because you were all so helpful during my recent trip up this past summer, I decided to hit you all up for info once again.

    A woman in my church is giving my a Grumman aluminum canoe that washed up on her lake shore about 15 yrs ago, and it has been growing vines ever since. I'm intent on bringing it to Anchorage next summer, on my cartop, and leaving it at my gf's parent's cabin in Talkeetna. I have four questions:

    1.) Is it even economically feasible to transport this canoe (any canoe) to AK on my car. (I'm driving up anyway.) These canoes are cheaper than dirt in FL, but I see that they are quite pricey in AK. (I also have an Old Town to bring up as well.) Should I just sell these canoes and buy new at REI when I get there?

    2.) In regards to the aluminum canoe: I am considering converting it into a square stern (what you guys in AK refer to as a freighter). Does anyone have any suggestions on that? I originally thought I might simply cut the stern prow off, somewhere near the bulkhead, and rivet on new metal. However, the curvature of the hull, combined with my sheet metal ability, precludes that. What are my options for attaching a stern in this case? Lastly, am I simply barking up the wrong tree? (It has occurred t me that this project could quickly become more costly than it's worth, and that perhaps I should just add on a motor plate at the stern prow.)

    3.) I have an early 1970's 4HP Evinrude 2 cylinder, 2 stroke outboard that I hope to power the canoe with. However, when I was fishing the Kenai River this past summer, I heard that AK had banned 2 stroke engines on the Kenai for environmental issues. Is this true? Are there other areas in AK where 2 strokes have been banned? Is this becoming a statewide trend? Lastly, are they banning all 2 strokes or just 2 strokes that do not meet current EPA standards? (In other words, the new Evinrude E-Tec engines are 2 stroke, but meet the current EPA standards, are they banned as well?)

    4.) What documentation will I need in AK to register it and get hull numbers for it?

    Thanks for your time and any advice you can give. Much obliged.

  2. #2
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    It's the 19'ers that people up here look for. If they're cheaper than dirt, bring a couple up on a car rack and sell one. 2-strokes are banned on the Kenai during July. I don't know if/when it'll be all year. Look up the Dept of Natural Resources (DNR) website, I'm pretty sure they're the ones in charge. Or you can send a PM to NERKA, I'm sure he knows the scoop.
    I may be slow, but I get where I'm going!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Hey Guys, I'm down in Tampa, but because you were all so helpful during my recent trip up this past summer, I decided to hit you all up for info once again.

    A woman in my church is giving my a Grumman aluminum canoe that washed up on her lake shore about 15 yrs ago, and it has been growing vines ever since. I'm intent on bringing it to Anchorage next summer, on my cartop, and leaving it at my gf's parent's cabin in Talkeetna. I have four questions:

    1.) Is it even economically feasible to transport this canoe (any canoe) to AK on my car. (I'm driving up anyway.) These canoes are cheaper than dirt in FL, but I see that they are quite pricey in AK. (I also have an Old Town to bring up as well.) Should I just sell these canoes and buy new at REI when I get there?

    2.) In regards to the aluminum canoe: I am considering converting it into a square stern (what you guys in AK refer to as a freighter). Does anyone have any suggestions on that? I originally thought I might simply cut the stern prow off, somewhere near the bulkhead, and rivet on new metal. However, the curvature of the hull, combined with my sheet metal ability, precludes that. What are my options for attaching a stern in this case? Lastly, am I simply barking up the wrong tree? (It has occurred t me that this project could quickly become more costly than it's worth, and that perhaps I should just add on a motor plate at the stern prow.)

    3.) I have an early 1970's 4HP Evinrude 2 cylinder, 2 stroke outboard that I hope to power the canoe with. However, when I was fishing the Kenai River this past summer, I heard that AK had banned 2 stroke engines on the Kenai for environmental issues. Is this true? Are there other areas in AK where 2 strokes have been banned? Is this becoming a statewide trend? Lastly, are they banning all 2 strokes or just 2 strokes that do not meet current EPA standards? (In other words, the new Evinrude E-Tec engines are 2 stroke, but meet the current EPA standards, are they banned as well?)

    4.) What documentation will I need in AK to register it and get hull numbers for it?

    Thanks for your time and any advice you can give. Much obliged.
    What we refer to as "freighter" canoes are not just any square stern canoe. Freighter canoes are a subset within the realm of square sterns, basically being the square sterns with larger carrying capacity such as the Grumman 19' freighter or the Hudson Bay Freighters.

    In your case, I don't see a lot of advantage to converting your double-ender into a square stern if you are only planning to run a 4hp outboard. You can typically easily run a 4hp outboard on a side-mount without having to modify the canoe.

    I believe the restrictions on the Kenai River are only for non-direct fuel injected 2-stroke outboards. The 4-strokes are legal and the 2-strokes with DFI are legal. I have no idea if there are any plans to expand the restrictions to other areas of the State.

    Based on my experience carrying a canoe on a car, I would say to bring it up if you will have a use for it up here. I typically get almost the same fuel mileage with a canoe on the roof as I do without. Even if you lost a couple MPG, you might spend a hundred extra dollars in fuel and would not have to spend multiple hundreds of dollars on a new boat when you get here.

    Hope that helps.

  4. #4
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    Thank you both for your comments. I obviously misunderstood the local canoeing lexicon when I was up; I thought anything with a square stern was a "freighter." Out of curiosity, what would be the typical cargo capacity range for what Alaskans call a freighter?

    I have never powered a a canoe with a side-mounted outboard. Do you have problems with the canoe trying to track toward the opposite side of the engine? It seems to me that that would be an issue do to the leverage of side mounting, but as I said, I've never done it.

    I'll do some more research on the whole 2 stroke thing, but it sounds practical to bring my outboard up.

  5. #5
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    FL2AK,

    1. The canoe will affect your gas mileage....enough to offset price of a new canoe???????

    2. I would not convert your canoe to a square stern.....heck of a job and I much prefer a side mount for small motors like yours.....far handier IMO. And you were correct in calling them a square stern as a freighter is a much larger vessel. I consider the 19' Grumman as marginal for the freighter category as it too was derived from a double ender 20'.

    3. Two strokes will eventually be taboo on all waters. If considering a low emision motor for your canoe, I'd opt for the Honda. Yamaha has a nice light 2HP but it is terribly noisy. Keep the weight down for a side mount motor.

    What type of Old Town do you have?

  6. #6
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    Don't change the canoe you have. just moniter Cragslist for your state an be ready to jump when one pops up that you want for sale, the 19 SQ will ride on top of full size cars an the small trucks, you need a large, long, base to make it stable going down the road, what I used was rubber rope with hooks to hold it on with reg. rope for safety [rubber rope is a pice of rubber about 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick an you but it by the foot / yard & the hooks by them self , it is not a bungee cord ] have a good trip, see you on the river

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