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Thread: Remington Under Fire

  1. #1
    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    Default Remington Under Fire

    Just watched a story on NBC news about the Rem 700 firing without pulling the trigger and when the safety is switched to off.

    I know this is no new news, but something that could potentially effect many members here if they were not aware.

    FYI , there is an hour long investigative report on the issue starting at 6:00pm on CNBC.
    I am going to watch it now.

    Edit; It will also air at 8:00pm and again at 9:00pm on CNBC.

  2. #2
    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    4 views and 0 replies on a serious topic....I guess everyone's too busy answering quiz questions or stopping a charging moose with a handgun!

    Anyway, I just finished watching the report. It is very worthwhile if you own or know someone who owns this rifle. I recommend you educate yourself on this topic. Any faulty or working safety can only be replaced by absolute gun safety, and this is a good reminder.

    In case you missed the show here is a link to the info presented.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/39740539/

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    I was just about to post about this. I haven't watched it yet, but I have it DVR'd.

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    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-Trooper05 View Post
    I was just about to post about this. I haven't watched it yet, but I have it DVR'd.
    It will open your eyes...It's certainly something I was not aware of. I own 2 and my family and I are going to have a little brush up on safety course tonight!

    Never trust any safety proven faulty or not. Keep that muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times.

  5. #5

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    My remi 700 experienced this very same problem. Smiths would work the trigger and give it a clean bill of health. Well last year while moose hunting I cleared the chamber, moved the safety to off and I hear the firing pin go click. This has happened with that rifle in the past but I thought the smith had fixed the problem. After that day every time I closed the bolt or turned turned the safety off the firing pin would release. The rifle was completely unsafe.

    This is scary stuff. I took the rifle to another smith and had him install a new timney trigger despite the smith saying the stock trigger could be fixed. Yeah I've heard that one before.

    I will never buy another 700 as a result of my experience. And if anyone else sees this happen to their rifle immediately replace the trigger.

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    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Wow, sure glad I have my old 742. Half the time it won't shoot with the safety off.........lol
    I bet there will be a big recall on this problem.

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    Member moses42ak's Avatar
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    I know there was an issue years ago with people not adjusting the factory triggers correctly and there is a chance of firing when the safety is turned off. Are they referring to the older triggers being adjusted?

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I have known of these issues for a while and replaced my 700's trigger with a Timney.

    Good info, be safe.

    Steve
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"
    Founding Member
    http://www.residenthuntersofalaska.org/

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    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Makes sense what your saying. I never heard of a safety problem on a Remington in my life til now.

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    I had it happen on a 700Rem about 25years ago. Come to find out this can happen if you never clean the trigger assembly. After cleaning the trigger it has never happened again. Come to think of it, it has been a while since I have cleaned the triggers on my two M700s. Thanks for the reminder.

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    We went through this subject several months ago on this forum. My issue is that the trigger on the M-700 is doing what it was designed to do. The reason the rifle is firing when the safety is moved to the "fire" position is that the trigger is in the rearward, or pulled position. Usually this is caused by the trigger being adjusted too light, or being dirty or full of lubricant, or all three. The trigger spring, if mis-adjusted, can not overcome the dirt, crud or heavy lubricant or cleaning solvent that has built up in the mechanism. Often, this is made worse by cold weather. This will cause the trigger to remain pulled to the rear if it is bumped or pulled with the safety engaged. Then, when you move the safety to fire, guess what, the trigger is to the rear, and the rifle discharges. The same thing can be done with a model 70 winchester if it is improperly adjusted. The new, x-mark pro triggers eliminate this possibility by camming the trigger forward when the safety in engaged. I don't know why I keep explaining this . Most folks don't understand the mechanics of triggers anyway. I use my 700's with complete confidence. I also don't point the rifle at ANYTHING I am not prepared to destroy.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    We went through this subject several months ago on this forum. My issue is that the trigger on the M-700 is doing what it was designed to do. The reason the rifle is firing when the safety is moved to the "fire" position is that the trigger is in the rearward, or pulled position. Usually this is caused by the trigger being adjusted too light, or being dirty or full of lubricant, or all three. The trigger spring, if mis-adjusted, can not overcome the dirt, crud or heavy lubricant or cleaning solvent that has built up in the mechanism. Often, this is made worse by cold weather. This will cause the trigger to remain pulled to the rear if it is bumped or pulled with the safety engaged. Then, when you move the safety to fire, guess what, the trigger is to the rear, and the rifle discharges. The same thing can be done with a model 70 winchester if it is improperly adjusted. The new, x-mark pro triggers eliminate this possibility by camming the trigger forward when the safety in engaged. I don't know why I keep explaining this . Most folks don't understand the mechanics of triggers anyway. I use my 700's with complete confidence. I also don't point the rifle at ANYTHING I am not prepared to destroy.
    Good info gunbugs.
    I can do the impossible right away. Be patient, miracles take me a bit longer.

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    Anyone that thinks that a "safety" switch makes guns safer is an idiot. I make it a point of NEVER using my safety and teach my children to act as though the safety doesn't exist. IMHO the existence of safeties have caused more gun related accidents than anything else. People treat guns without safeties completely different.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPenetration View Post
    Anyone that thinks that a "safety" switch makes guns safer is an idiot. I make it a point of NEVER using my safety and teach my children to act as though the safety doesn't exist. IMHO the existence of safeties have caused more gun related accidents than anything else. People treat guns without safeties completely different.
    So fricking true what you just said. Gun safety is the real life saver on that issue totally. I've never had a safety fail on me, but that doesn't mean I have to trust it. Watch where your barrel is pointed at all times.
    I can do the impossible right away. Be patient, miracles take me a bit longer.

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    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    Max/grizz,

    I agree with the above comments, but I'm not sure I'd call a guy an idiot for having a rifle fire when anything other than the trigger is pulled. That is the issue here. Read some of the reports in the info provided above. That is what was so shocking about this story. CNBC had proof that Rem knew of this problem for decades and chose not to make corrections. Even the guy who designed the rifle warned that there were defects and made a recommendation to replace the trigger with a new design of his own.

    If he has the gun pointed at his foot or his partners back when he takes the safety off....Then he could just be an "idiot".

  16. #16
    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northriver21 View Post
    Max/grizz,

    I agree with the above comments, but I'm not sure I'd call a guy an idiot for having a rifle fire when any other than the trigger is pulled.

    If he has the gun pointed at his foot or his partners back when he takes the safety off....Then he could just be an "idiot".
    No, the point is, just never point your barrel at anything you don't want to harm, including your foot. Same goes for the old, I thought it was unloaded gun. Alot more people have been killed or mutilated by guns that were thought to be unloaded than by faulty safeties. In any case the gun was improperly pointed when the incident occurred.
    I can do the impossible right away. Be patient, miracles take me a bit longer.

  17. #17
    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyH View Post
    No, the point is, just never point your barrel at anything you don't want to harm, including your foot. Same goes for the old, I thought it was unloaded gun. Alot more people have been killed or mutilated by guns that were thought to be unloaded than by faulty safeties. In any case the gun was improperly pointed when the incident occurred.
    Sorry northriver, I'd never call a guy an idiot if the safety malfunctions, unless he has the barrel pointed at something he doesn't want to hurt, including your own foot. Just be barrel aware at all times is all I'm trying to say. If a man shoots himself or a friend because of a gun malfunction, then it's his own fault for being a dumb ass and not watching at all times where his gun is pointed. Common sense thing is all.
    I can do the impossible right away. Be patient, miracles take me a bit longer.

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    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    GrizzlyH,

    I dont disagree one bit with you. I come from the same school of though that you obviously do.

    First rule of gun safety is control your muzzle! The whole point of this thread was how shocked I was to hear the behind the scenes evidence that was uncovered by the TV special.

    I realize as gunbugs stated that this has been discussed and "how a trigger works". Again read the stuff in the links I provided above, that was my point to this thread.

  19. #19
    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northriver21 View Post
    GrizzlyH,

    I dont disagree one bit with you. I come from the same school of though that you obviously do.

    First rule of gun safety is control your muzzle! The whole point of this thread was how shocked I was to hear the behind the scenes evidence that was uncovered by the TV special.

    I realize as gunbugs stated that this has been discussed and "how a trigger works". Again read the stuff in the links I provided above, that was my point to this thread.
    Not knocking you at all North, just making a point about gun safety. Matters not if the gun is defective, but matters a whole lot if the gun operator is. I'm not concerned with the 700 problems, cuz I wouldn't own a bolt action anything. Pump or Auto is my gig. Bolt actions are World War I obsolete crap in my book for quick shots and accurassy. Bolt actions suck in my book. I'd rather use my mussleloader instead of a bolt action, cuz I know I'm only gonna get one shot anyway most of the time...................lol
    I can do the impossible right away. Be patient, miracles take me a bit longer.

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    Member moses42ak's Avatar
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    I understand the point of muzzle control...and I practice it. Always vertical, either at the ground or the sky but let's take another direction here. Why don't we use this as a reminder to clean and properly lube our rifles, trigger included. This may prevent any ND's from happening and hopefully keep us and our families/friends safe.

    See you at the range.

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