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Thread: Asians hunting in family units for small game. Have any of you experienced this latel

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    Default Asians hunting in family units for small game. Have any of you experienced this latel

    lately.

    First before some people come on here and get all PC on me let me first say i have no problem with anyone being able to hunt but i have noticed a trend here lately.

    I have recently returned from a couple of my old hunting grounds and have noticed something that well i never dealt with before. Experience number 1

    Mystery Creek Road.
    Headed up to this for a day trip about a couple of weeks ago. This was my favorite hunting spot many years ago when i lived up here. We always made it a point to make a couple trips to this area. I used to know this place like the back of my hand. Well this was the first time in 12 years that i had a chance to go back. Well we got there early and i told a hunting buddy how the trip usually goes. First trucks in get the birds, there will be stragglers for the trucks behind but you really have to watch the road sides etc. So anyhow we headed in early, got to about mile 6 when we found a small group of about 6 birds, Got two out of the bunch. Well we headed past the construction going in and went past the first creek. Much to our suprise we met a truck pulling up. We slowed down to talk and the group in the truck told us to turn around and dont waste your time. I said what? This place is always loaded with grouse. He simply looked pissed and i thought what the hell did we do. We continued to drive all the way up to the airport and saw no birds. Headed way past the airport when we come across some guy walking out in full fatigues with boonie hat etc. My friend looked at me and said where are we laos or cambodia. I laughed but up walked three more guys, all flashing their guns at us with weird looks. We continued passed them about a couple of miles and picked up another grouse. Well as we where headed back to the truck we noticed another truck meeting us on the trail. We stopped and noticed it was a toyota truck with about 10 asian guys in the back box with three in the truck. We followed them and the would drop off about 3-4 guys every couple hundred yards. THe truck would drive and wait for them with driver on walkie talkies and the troops amassed in the trees like in a military formation. THey did this to such perfection it was almost unbelivable. We left that day with three birds and surprised but what we saw. What was this operation and is this normal for up here now.

    Trip #2 Took us to old man trail ptarmigan hunting. my buddy commented i hope we dont run into that organization again but on the way back at permenente trail we noticed a similiar group with 8 atvs with about 2-3 guys all packing guns riding on the vehicles. they where loaded down and had tons for game and coolers coming out.

    so the next day my buddy made some inquiries at work. An older gentleman told him dont bother if you can reach an area on a truck or 4 wheel drive vehicle the asians have already hunted it out. they go in and literally wipe out everything of small game and they do it in large professional operations. animals be ****ed they will take everything they can get their hands on. that was the comment he heard and a couple of other guys said the same thing. basically you almost need to do a fly out hunt for great small game hunting now.

    HAVE anyone here experienced this and how did you handle it. I felt very out of place and didnt think the whole thing seemed fair in the idea of fair chase and wise use of our natural resources. Please people give me your thoughts. Also i am wondering at mystery creek road if i shouldnt have taken their license plate number and called someone with what we saw. thanks and please understand i am not trying to call out the asians it was just wierd to experience and see what we saw recently in our small game trips.

    By the way out hunting has sucked this year. worse than any other times in the past and that is the next thing i am wondering. Are you seeing many birds or not our there..?

  2. #2
    Member sameyer's Avatar
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    A few thoughts. Groups of hunters, both family and just friends have hunted together in organized fashion for as long as we’ve been hunting. The over-taking of areas by various groups is also common. I know many hunters (and often times it is family groups) who specifically get to the area they hunt, stake it out early and essentially control that piece of ground.

    Anywhere there is vehicle and four wheeler access the hunting, especially from the road or trail, is not going to be great and it certainly is getting worse. Having been here for forty years,, and having hunted that area for that same time, I can attest to the changes and those changes came a long time ago.

    I haven’t taken the time to look it up, but I believe using hand held radios is illegal although that may be just for big game. That’s the only thing from your description that would be an issue.

    What you describe is disturbing from the standpoint of how folks are going about their hunting, but only from a “traditional sporting” hunter’s viewpoint. But, I don’t agree with driving down the road and shooting grouse either, taking them on the wing where they live is my preference. But, that is a personal thing and has no bearing on what you or anyone else does so long as it is legal.

    Specifically to your question; have I seen this type of thing? Yes, I have although not exactly as you describe and most of the time it has been “white guys.”

    The hunting for grouse and waterfowl has been slow this year but I have to say, if you are willing to work hard there is plenty of birds and rabbits out there for the taking.
    Last edited by sameyer; 10-14-2010 at 08:14. Reason: change from samll game to big game

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    This happened quite a bit when I was a kid in Wisconsin, there were many Laotian families that settled in the middle of the state. The culture definitely supports doing things in groups, and back then the language barrier made things like bag limits, and licensing and private land tough to convey. Since most of wisconsin in this area is private, it raised more than a few hackles when large vans full of hunters would descend on a woodlot and as you saw, systematically work it over and leave with heavy bags of squirrels, grouse, coons, ducks...whatever was within sight....some of it was open, some of it was not. Old farmers would often have to use a rather suggestive sign language to end the hunting party and escort them off the land...often posted land.

    Things have gotten better there now from what I've heard and I'm glad to hear it, some of it was enforcement, some of it was them becoming Americanized and organized and soon owning their own woodlots (collectively very effective). I went to church and school with lots of kids from this culture and they were really pretty good folks....just lots of miscommunication and dismay that there was such a thing as seasons and private land (especially from those that came over as adults). Many of their fathers had been involved in the military in one form or another during the Vietnam war era, many of them took well to bowhunting whitetails, and I've got to say, many of them did extremely well.

    Back to this thread, it's unfortunate that your areas have been overrun with hunters (no matter their affiliation or etc.) but the fact that they came in a large group instead of 30 single F-350's from the nearest town is really here nor there. If you saw something illegal, then it is likely it is a common theme among the whole group, and whole lotta education and enforcement could be had if they met a LEO, if they are all licensed, within date, on public land and within bag limits....it's just another example of increasing stressed on non increasing habitat.

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    Member SkinnyD's Avatar
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    I'm not a huge supporter of a systematic harvest of any species as I believe the animal's ability to fly or run away makes hunting and killing it a much more rewarding venture. However, as long as the bird or rabbit in question is harvested legally and respectfully and there is no waste of meat, I can't see anything wrong with several hunters in the woods. Back in South Carolina as far as I know it's still legal to run deer with dogs, which amounts to the same thing as 30 hunters walking in formation through the woods. This sort of thing happens everywhere, and it's not just birds and hares. On the bright side, though, it's pretty neat that any group of people want to hunt together. I've hunted 26 days since Sept. 1 and only three of those have been in the company of another hunter, so I can imagine the company is kinda nice.

    With regard to the fact that the folks you ran across were Asian, I believe it serves as excellent evidence that there are other people in the world who appreciate the opportunity to hunt besides "dumb, inbred, truck-driving rednecks." The next time one of your tree-hugging friends makes that accusation, point out that hunting is enjoyed by a variety of cultures and creeds.
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    I've heard about the Wisconsin thing a few years ago from a fishing buddy. Haven't seen groups of 30+ shifty Asians small game hunting this year, but I know they're out there. A kid in my class reported doing just what the op described, about two weeks ago. He said he was going hunting with a bunch of relatives for squirrel and any other small game they could find.

    Guess I'd rather not see Ho Chi Minh's army when I'm grouse hunting with my son, but what else can you do if they're not breaking the law?

    Tim

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    I ran into the exact same thing this last weekend @ mystery creek It used to be you would only run into a couple rigs a day if you went in there after the moose season. Well now you see 10-12 trucks every morning and thats back in there a ways not the first part of the road. I used to love hunting swanson river road for grouse but started to run into the same thing now mystery creek is the same pretty much a joke.
    And to answer your questions yes 98% of them were asians all driving toyotas or nissans. I don't know if i will ever go back it has been getting worse the last couple years but its to the point now that its rediculus and im not a big fan of combat grouse hunting.

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    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    I too saw asians hunting! At first I thought they were moose hunting (before the season opener) but the guy informed me they were hunting groats.

    Hopefully these arent the same families that fish the local lakes that walk off with buckets of stockers.

    Two things that Im confident in.... 1. Nothing will go to waste. 2. Everything will be shot. Tweety birds to porcupines

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    Who needs bear snaring & aerial wolf control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyD View Post
    I'm not a huge supporter of a systematic harvest of any species as I believe the animal's ability to fly or run away makes hunting and killing it a much more rewarding venture. However, as long as the bird or rabbit in question is harvested legally and respectfully and there is no waste of meat, I can't see anything wrong with several hunters in the woods. Back in South Carolina as far as I know it's still legal to run deer with dogs, which amounts to the same thing as 30 hunters walking in formation through the woods. This sort of thing happens everywhere, and it's not just birds and hares. On the bright side, though, it's pretty neat that any group of people want to hunt together. I've hunted 26 days since Sept. 1 and only three of those have been in the company of another hunter, so I can imagine the company is kinda nice.

    With regard to the fact that the folks you ran across were Asian, I believe it serves as excellent evidence that there are other people in the world who appreciate the opportunity to hunt besides "dumb, inbred, truck-driving rednecks." The next time one of your tree-hugging friends makes that accusation, point out that hunting is enjoyed by a variety of cultures and creeds.
    Right on Skinny D, I'm with you. We shouldn't be worrying about the asians taking over our woods, but the bunny huggers. As long as the asian culture is abiding by the rules, I say let them be. In fact we should welcome them to our side. Lord knows their population is probably outgrowing ours by 10:1. I have seen an influx of their culture in the woods as of late, but I am not intimidated by them. If anything, they are probably intimidated by us "white folks", and that is probably why the one guy in the story mentioned probably had a little "attitude". He was probably just trying to look tough because he feels intimidated in the white man's world. Probably if we just showed them a little respect, they would lighten up and be more willing to share the woods.

    Just my 2 cents.

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    Member Nukalpiaq's Avatar
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    live and let live

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    I ran into 3 Koreans while grouse hunting a few weeks back they were looking for hares only tho only one of them spoke English aNd was very friendly although I am positive that they had no liscense as he asked me how many they can shoot in a day. I had a copy of the reg book in my jeep So I gave it to the. And showed him what unit we were in And how to find bag limits. After that I asked if the were liscensed and he admitted that they weren't and didn't mean to break any laws that they just did not know they needed one. So I pointed them In the right direction as to where to get them And Am confident that they would get some they guy got pretty scared when I told him about the hefty fines that can come with game violations And that they could confiscate the guns they were using as we as the vehicle they used for transportation if they wanted to. The whole ordeal didn't bother me As it was only 3 of them and not a small army and I feel like I actually taught them something and they truly did not know

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default Oh no!

    First it was kelp annihilation on the beaches of Seward, then black bear slaughter for bladders out of Whittier, then planter scooping from SC lakes, then doubling up on the kings at Ninilchick followed by massive family unit clam grabs...
    ... so it's now small game megadeath by militia? What's next?
    I'm keeping my small dogs on shorter leashes!

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    sayak

    are you serious or joking with your comment. what are these thing your talking about. did they really happen?
    what is planter scooping in sc lakes?

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerhav View Post
    sayak

    are you serious or joking with your comment. what are these thing your talking about. did they really happen?
    what is planter scooping in sc lakes?
    Within every humorous statement there is an element of truth.

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    Must spread rep around, before giving to Sayak again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie View Post
    Must spread rep around, before giving to Sayak again...
    And I couldn't hit'm either. He must be doin' good these days.

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    My wife and I ran into an organinzed Asian clam harvest at Ninilchik two summers ago. There were 50 -100 Southeast Asians who arrived in motorhomes, campers, vans, pulling trailers with ATVs. These people literally were from one end of the beach to the other digging up razor clams. There was no Fish & Game present checking licenses or limits. Can't imagine what they did with all the clams they took. I suspect they were Hmong people from Anchorage. There is a large community of Hmongs that settled there a few years ago ( http://hmongalaskacommunityinc.com/). From what I understand they love to hunt and fish. Their elders were trained in guerilla warfare by the US Special Forces in Nam.

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerhav View Post
    sayak

    are you serious or joking with your comment. what are these thing your talking about. did they really happen?
    what is planter scooping in sc lakes?
    +1 if I could too Sayak.

    Why do you think there are now regulations pertaining to how much kelp you can harvest off of south central beaches?
    People (I won't mention the primary race/races involved)Were harvesting large amounts of kelp primarily that witch held herring eggs and was washing up on the beaches near Seward. Not sure what the enviromental damage from harvesting the beach kelp is but ADF&G or DNR whomever is responsible agency here thaought enough of it to set strict limits on its harvest
    As far as planter scooping there have also been reports of some groups harvesting large ( multiple limits per person per day) amounts of stocked fish from lakes all across Alaska. We are talking 5 gallon pails full.
    I purposely left race out of the equation as all groups have their inherent violators. Some groups have been witnessed too be responsible for more than their fair share of violations.
    Very few ethnic groups have a need/want for bear gall bladders so some of these types of things kind of point toward one area of the globe for a point of origin of the particular violators in some of the crimes.
    Just my $.02
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akjblizzard View Post
    . I suspect they were Hmong people from Anchorage. There is a large community of Hmongs that settled there a few years ago ( http://hmongalaskacommunityinc.com/). From what I understand they love to hunt and fish. Their elders were trained in guerilla warfare by the US Special Forces in Nam.
    My understanding is the Hmong people were on the US side during the Vietnam war.They are no longer welcome in Vietnam as they helped the "enemy". They have been known in many different states to kill and eat virtually any edible wild game from song birds to big game and everything in between. They are often noted to be hunting during closed seasons.
    When I fought wildfires in MN we were warned to be careful in southern portions of the state to look out for their booby traps placed around their pot growing operations.
    I am sure their are plenty of wonderful Hmong people in Alaska and elsewhere though.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    My understanding is the Hmong people were on the US side during the Vietnam war.They are no longer welcome in Vietnam as they helped the "enemy". They have been known in many different states to kill and eat virtually any edible wild game from song birds to big game and everything in between. They are often noted to be hunting during closed seasons.
    When I fought wildfires in MN we were warned to be careful in southern portions of the state to look out for their booby traps placed around their pot growing operations.
    I am sure their are plenty of wonderful Hmong people in Alaska and elsewhere though.
    Same where I grew up, many of these folks were sponsored by churches like the one I attended when i was a kid.

    As far as the fishing....it was sometimes sad and sometimes enlightening back in Wisconsin. When the spring sucker run started, local rivers that never got fished were thronged with Hmong families catching and carrying out suckers (lots of them)....few sport fishermen ever bothered and no Hmong died of eating them so perhaps they were onto something Limits were nonexistent and they fed the family with what we all called trash fish....same for carp and other rough fish. The sad part was that they were completely colorblind as to what fish they were taking with gamefish as well. I fished a small impoundment near my house when I was a kid...bass, bluegills, perch, crappie, carp, random walleye or pike. The good part of these families descending on this lake was that they kept everything (cleaning out stunted little panfish, literally carried cutout gallon milk jugs and filled em up with stuff down to the size of goldfish)....the bad part was that nightcrawlers catch everything and they accordingly kept everything so the hurt got put on what I called desirable fish, and eventually my little honey hole had much less than it had 5-7 years earlier.

    This may sound out there....and times do change things...but watch any of these shows that go to river communities in some bumdiddle rainforest somewhere and observe how folks fish their rivers and what they eat....they are not discretionary at all and many of their rivers are hurting for it...both subsistence and commercially. This isn't malice...it's culture...and when they came here, it's pretty foreign to catch and release and certainly to highgrade by size of species due to "rules". I don't like it, but then again I don't like seeing anywhere I found some good fishing and soltiude become a zoo and have reduced quality of fish, no matter the reason....heck, even a good ol Fish Alaska magazine article can bring hoardes to what you thought was your honeyhole and mess it up....and who's culture is that? But, I like the regs that are in place to protect resources, and if there is abuse, then enforcement needs to be applied for the good of all. Annymore, the language barrier is very small, so that old story doesn't really fly and as long as the rules are played by...not much to be done. But as the former post said, I doubt anything is wasted....can't always say the same for "us" sportfishermen.

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