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Thread: Kasilof Steelhead

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Default Kasilof Steelhead

    Can I get some info on the hatchery steelhead in Kasilof? Is it a Crooked Creek run or do they go up further? Whats the run timing and can you use bait? Is there a winter fishery or does it freeze? Why is Kasilof the only hatchery steelhead run in these parts? Why don't they put them in all the south central systems? Why would we want to catch a stressed out sore mouthed Kenai rainbow that has been fondled, prodded, photographed and humilated by more guys than a bush company starlet, when we could be knockin boots w/ head in Campbell Creek? Just wondering

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    There is no longer any stocking of Steelhead in Crooked creek. This ended I believe over 10 years ago due to concerns of steelhead migrating into Kenai river watersheds.
    There is a run of steelhead into Nikolai creek on Tustumena lake. Possibly elswhere too but I know Nikolai has a weir with a camera setup to count them.
    I have caught steelhead in the upper river in may and in the fall while fishing for silvers. Not sure on the peak run timing though. They usually fish for them before the kings show up in the spring at the peoples hole below the crooked creek confluence. Thee is a state parks campground and day use area there.
    I have seen a few nice fish come out of the upper river maybe 8# or a little bigger.
    Bait is allowed but not year round if I remember right. Check your regs for times when bait is legal in the Kasilof.
    Hope this info helps.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Good info Chris. The hatchery steelhead up and down the west coast don't seem to bother any indigenous fish. I do know that it is an untapped winter resource I wish we would look into.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    . The hatchery steelhead up and down the west coast don't seem to bother any indigenous fish.
    This couldn't be further from the truth, hatchery steelhead are one of the largest (right behind dams) factors in steelhead decline up and down the west coast.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member muzzyman87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    Why would we want to catch a stressed out sore mouthed Kenai rainbow that has been fondled, prodded, photographed and humilated by more guys than a bush company starlet, when we could be knockin boots w/ head in Campbell Creek? Just wondering
    This gave me great satisfaction
    I am not against the flippin kenai, since I cannot but suspect it keeps armies of the unworthy from discovering every other stream... ~Paul O'Neil~/~Wyo2AK~

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    This couldn't be further from the truth, hatchery steelhead are one of the largest (right behind dams) factors in steelhead decline up and down the west coast.
    Indian gill nets staked bank to bank could be putting the hurt on them too. Where did you find out that hatchery steelhead hurt wild ones and how? I'm not saying its not true I'm just wondering.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    Indian gill nets staked bank to bank could be putting the hurt on them too. Where did you find out that hatchery steelhead hurt wild ones and how? I'm not saying its not true I'm just wondering.
    You just answered your own question, no hatchery fish, no fishing on endangered wild stocks, especially not with gillnets. Tribes are allowed 50% of the harvestable surplus, and the only reason there is a harvestable surplus is hatcheries, and of course gillnets don't care wether the fish is a hatchery fish or not.

    Also interbreeding and increased competition for spawning space and rearing have been shown repeatedly to reduce spawning success and smolt fitness. The excess amount of smolt have also been shown to increase predation on smolt.

    ADF&G has tried a number of steelhead enhancement projects, the most successful being crooked creek. But also Campbell Creek and Montana Creek (in Juneau) which were not successful at all. Crooked Creek was discontinued because of fish straying into the Kenai, which would be bad for the genetic structure of Kenai Rainbows.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    As usual, AKPM is swinging .500 on his biology. On this one he's right and all it takes is a read of a ton of magazine articles and somewhat less so of science articles to know that it's true. The problem started with ****, logging, dewatering, agriculture etc. but once hatchery fish came along (cuz they're cheaper to raise than it is to reclamate messed up habitat) they were thought to be the big fix it....lots o lots o problems along the way.

    Some is the spread of diseases from domesticated fish, and some is the high straying rate that many stocking programs exhibit (they are intended to go back to the hatchery but this is hardly a reality). This means you are mixing fish that are less selected for survival with the few remaining wild run fish, thus weakening the genetics of an already limited stock of fish.

    Just because it's a prolific tactic does not mean that hatchery steelhead are a good idea. I think half of it in the northwest is just stubborn pride by management agencies, but in the end it could be the final nail in the coffin.

    As to the native netting at the mouths of rivers, it needs to be put into a historical perspective......if white boys hadn't plugged each river for dams and logged every tree and eroded every hillside for 100 years up til now, what they catch would be a pittance compared to what used to return the pacific northwest. The way salmonid fisheries work is you need X amount to spawn each year, depending on conditions you well get Xplus WY or Z to come back in a few years. In healthy systems, (or only Bristol Bay now it seems) some fish stocks can be exploited at a rate of more than 50 percent but still show healthy returns each year. So, if netting down there is allocated half the run (which it is) ....then in the heyday, half of 60 thousand fish is still a ton of spawners in the system, step into modern times where there are 6,000 fish coming back to a system (if that) and half of that could really hurt.....but that doesn't mean that netting created the situation, and those folks are just doing what people do, and that's getting theirs while they can.

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    As to the native netting at the mouths of rivers, it needs to be put into a historical perspective......if white boys hadn't plugged each river for dams and logged every tree and eroded every hillside for 100 years up til now,
    My Gawd man!!! The only land in south central that I know that was logged, was logged by the native corps. Have you taken a look at Two Moon Bay? How about Redhead, Latouche, Gravina, and Sheridan to name a few? Despicable clearcuts, erosion, waste of timber, timber littering the beaches and causing navigation hazards. What about the profits? The illustrious native corp sold the wood for a nickel on the dollar So they could sell their losses to GE and Motorola, so they in turn could rob the coffers of the United States for tax dollars owed. That my man is treachery IMO. Oh and I feel compelled to remind you most people find the racial slur "white boy" as extremely offensive and bordering hate. Hey but I did find most of your post pretty informative and some of your points made sense

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    As usual, AKPM is swinging .500 on his biology. On this one he's right and all it takes is a read of a ton of magazine articles and somewhat less so of science articles to know that it's true. The problem started with ****, logging, dewatering, agriculture etc. but once hatchery fish came along (cuz they're cheaper to raise than it is to reclamate messed up habitat) they were thought to be the big fix it....lots o lots o problems along the way. .
    Thanks for starting to fill in the other 50%
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    5th generation logger here.

    You gentlemen could stand to be better informed on that side of things.

    But I ain't nobody but a "white boy", ain't know nothing bout no fish or no wood. Shore don't know nothing bout no logging neither boss.





    By the way:
    I CUT Gravina. I'll have you know I outright laughed an evil little laugh every single time that 660 Magnum bit into the flesh of another tight clean hemlock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icb12 View Post
    5th generation logger here.

    You gentlemen could stand to be better informed on that side of things.

    But I ain't nobody but a "white boy", ain't know nothing bout no fish or no wood. Shore don't know nothing bout no logging neither boss.





    By the way:
    I CUT Gravina. I'll have you know I outright laughed an evil little laugh every single time that 660 Magnum bit into the flesh of another tight clean hemlock.

    This is great!!!!

    Not as good as the "Yukon Fire Engines" quote though......
    I am not against the flippin kenai, since I cannot but suspect it keeps armies of the unworthy from discovering every other stream... ~Paul O'Neil~/~Wyo2AK~

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    ADFG stopped stocking steel head in 97, because they found the steel head in the upper kenai which it seems has steel head in the upper Keily??????????
    As far as I know the fish in the Anchor are not hatchery fish, but since I didn't plant them there I honestly don't know.
    There is steel head in every stream from Kenai to the Anchor. Steel head wander from stream to stream so even the native fish probably end up in a different stream then what they were hatched from. Just like the fact there is steel head in the Kenai there is no way to tell for sure off hand if the fish there were the hatchery fish or not. I don't know if having them in the kenai or any of the other rivers hurts any thing but it really doesn't matter they are there.

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    Where's the best place to hit the river for fall steelhead? Thinking of casting from shore. Heard the upper river supposed to be really good sometimes. Any guides offer trips for them this time of year?

    Thanks!

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    anchor is better but if your going to the kasilof, above the boat launch to people's hole has fish around. Crooked creek camp gound is a good place to start. Nanilchik has fishable numbers too.

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    Where is Nanilchik? Is this in Alaska. Ha Ha Ha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cut throatAK View Post
    Where is Nanilchik? Is this in Alaska. Ha Ha Ha.
    I belive it's near Dip Crick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER_016 View Post
    I belive it's near Dip Crick.
    Don't you mean "......Dip Crick.....eh!"

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    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qkayak View Post
    Don't you mean "......Dip Crick.....eh!"

    Sorry EH!

    Hoser!!!!!

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER_016 View Post
    Sorry EH!

    Hoser!!!!!
    take off eh you hoser!!!!!!!

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