Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50

Thread: Why learn marksmanship when you can have a computer do the shooting for you?

  1. #1
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Default Why learn marksmanship when you can have a computer do the shooting for you?

    Could this be the beginning of the end of marksmanship? Sniper rifles that "aim themselves" so the shooter doesn't have to. Coming soon to an infantry unit near you...

    http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...ar/?test=faces
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  2. #2
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Who cares, if it makes bad guys dead and helps keep good guys safe then I am all for it!!

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,031

    Question Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Who cares...
    Wow. A response like that from a government funded operation aimed at killing people at well over 1/2 mile away? Why don't we all just sit in our easy chairs and press "the button" that makes all the bad people gone? Silly? yes. Same thing? yes.

  4. #4
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    We already fly drones from stateside virtual cockpits and kill bad guys by the 1000's. If we can do it from over 5000 miles away I don't see why anyone would have a problem doing it 1/2 mile!

    The ultimate would be to put computer controlled set guns all around the war zones and then have a subscription based system for people to log into them from home and operate them like a first person shooter. In order to arm it you would have a button that pinged a military command cell to review the feed. Once clearance was granted they would oversee you engaging the target and eliminating it. Be interesting to see the war fund itself in that manner....

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,031

    Default wrong assumption

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    We already fly drones from stateside virtual cockpits and kill bad guys by the 1000's. If we can do it from over 5000 miles away I don't see why anyone would have a problem doing it 1/2 mile!
    Look, the entire purpose of a forum type of site instead of the more-normal here's-my-info-type-of-site is to allow for people's different point of views. Personally I disagree with the 5,000 miles away type of thing. So yes, of course I have a problem with the 1/2 mile away type of thing.

    If war becomes a pushbutton sort of thing, with no losses possible to oneself, then we've lost part of our self. My opinion.

    I know you work for a gov'mt contractor Jon. And I used to. We could get farther into this part of it, but likely its better done via PMs, or not at all.

    The rest of your post is fairly weird, imo. If you feel that way really maybe you should start a new thread on that subject by itself; that subject (though I disagree with your stance) is worthy of its own thread.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southwest Alaska
    Posts
    2,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Look, the entire purpose of a forum type of site instead of the more-normal here's-my-info-type-of-site is to allow for people's different point of views. Personally I disagree with the 5,000 miles away type of thing. So yes, of course I have a problem with the 1/2 mile away type of thing.

    If war becomes a pushbutton sort of thing, with no losses possible to oneself, then we've lost part of our self. My opinion.

    I know you work for a gov'mt contractor Jon. And I used to. We could get farther into this part of it, but likely its better done via PMs, or not at all.

    The rest of your post is fairly weird, imo. If you feel that way really maybe you should start a new thread on that subject by itself; that subject (though I disagree with your stance) is worthy of its own thread.
    I feel anyone should be able to speak their mind. So I have to ask: do you think our guys should fight with only knives? As you have "a problem" with the drones and sniper-shooting?
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  7. #7
    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    I don't think this type of technology will fundamentally change the way infantry fights. It might help some snipers in some limited circumstances, assume they need to/ and can lug this extra stuff around.

    That being said, generally, the history of warfare has been dominated from the very beginning to the present by nations and their militaries attempting at huge cost in treasure to extend the range of their weapons beyond those of their enemies. The minute (it will never happen) when we stop doing that well, will be the beginning of the end not only of our world dominance but our own ability to provide security for our population.

  8. #8

    Default

    I just hope there are some human snipers still around when the system gets hit with the latest worm, virus, techical glitch, power surge, battery drain..... Kinda useless if anything at all goes wrong and there's no human "backup."

  9. #9

    Default

    Just watching shows like top snipers you get the information that many hi-tech devises like laser ranging get coruped by dust and hi heat at times and some of the best shots that saved lives were ranged by mildot. Their take is there is no substitute for actual Manual rangining ability. Only aids not substitutions.

  10. #10
    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alaska - I wasn't born here, but I got here as soon as I could!
    Posts
    3,279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Wow. A response like that from a government funded operation aimed at killing people at well over 1/2 mile away? Why don't we all just sit in our easy chairs and press "the button" that makes all the bad people gone? Silly? yes. Same thing? yes.
    So it's not really a war unless we make sure that a few of the good guys get killed?

  11. #11
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Default

    Ya'll are reminding me of that episode of Star Trek where they went to that one planet where the people fought a "fake" war via computers and after the computer figured out how many casualties there were on each side, they lined that many people up and ran them through the incinerator/vaporizer thingie. It prevented the "ugliness" of actually having to exchange real gunfire (or nuclear weapon exchanges in this case) to kill the other guys.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  12. #12
    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Ya'll are reminding me of that episode of Star Trek where they went to that one planet where the people fought a "fake" war via computers and after the computer figured out how many casualties there were on each side, they lined that many people up and ran them through the incinerator/vaporizer thingie. It prevented the "ugliness" of actually having to exchange real gunfire (or nuclear weapon exchanges in this case) to kill the other guys.
    This is my favorite non-ugly way to exchange gunfire with the bad guys:

    bomb.jpg

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    No war can be won without the man in the trenches.The little red button has been around for sixty years but all know if pushed no one wins
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  14. #14
    Member JOAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Soldotna, ALASKA since '78
    Posts
    3,720

    Default

    Yeah, a dozen well-placed nukes 9 years ago would have made a huge difference in the way things have gone. We will never tame the Afghans and now we are starting to see how the Pakistanis have been stabbing us in the back. The whole region would be easier to clean up if it were just a big glass bowl.

    Aside from that (as it can only get too much into politics)... do you want your official, government trained snipers to rely on a computer to aim the gun for them, or should we teach the human shooter how to figure out and use windage and elevation adjustments that date back with great reliability to the dawn of the age of the gun?
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  15. #15
    Member woodman6437's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bethel
    Posts
    239

    Default

    Modern tanks have computers that calculate ballistic solutions and tell the gunner where to aim, allowing us to hit targets from miles away. I just see this as a smaller version of that. If you have ever shot tank gunnery you would know that even with the ballistic computer it is still not nearly as simple as point and shoot. If it helps our guys kill more bad guys and stay alive, I am all for it. I doubt the Army will stray away from the fundamentals of marksmanship. Technology fails which has been shown numerous times. The military still teaches land nav with a map and compass despite the advent of GPS, just like they still teach you how to shoot with iron sights despite modern optics. Even tankers have to learn how to aim manually through the back up sight just in case.

  16. #16
    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alaska - I wasn't born here, but I got here as soon as I could!
    Posts
    3,279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Aside from that (as it can only get too much into politics)... do you want your official, government trained snipers to rely on a computer to aim the gun for them, or should we teach the human shooter how to figure out and use windage and elevation adjustments that date back with great reliability to the dawn of the age of the gun?
    I say both.

  17. #17
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    I say both.
    I have spent the better part of the last 1/2 decade working in down range medical facilities and through that time have gotten a first hand view of what war is. I have seen things that can't be unseen, nor would I ever want to disrespect the fallen by forgetting any of it. I am for ANYTHING that keeps our servicemen and women alive and gives them the upper hand.

    For those of you who have watched movies and think you know what it is "all about", you have no idea. You smell popcorn at the theater, I assure that a burnt and dismembered person does not smell of Orville Reddenbacher. They try and paint a picture but until you watch someone die as you and your friends futilely try and save them then as you pack up their personal effects find a picture of their wife and child you won't even begin to understand. To you who have not been, frankly your opinion on how war "should" be fought means less than nothing to me.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,031

    Default Learning from old Star Trek episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Ya'll are reminding me of that episode of Star Trek where they went to that one planet where the people fought a "fake" war via computers and after the computer figured out how many casualties there were on each side, they lined that many people up and ran them through the incinerator/vaporizer thingie. It prevented the "ugliness" of actually having to exchange real gunfire (or nuclear weapon exchanges in this case) to kill the other guys.
    Yes. And unless I'm wrong, they discovered at the end that their "war" was useless, and had it been fought in real life instead of just pushing buttons they'd have noticed that sooner.

    As bad as it is to learn about real life's decisions from TV shows, this actually is a pretty accurate lesson I think.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Arizona Baby!
    Posts
    485

    Default

    I imagine that there were a few campfire discussions similar to this when rifle scopes were introduced. We have been pushbutton able in one form or another for the better part of six decades.
    Too bad we could not have ended WWll at the push of a button in lieu having to rely on aircraft and the limited visability. I fail to see the difference between this latest technology and shelling a target from 50 km away.
    I am not advocating either method just trying to put it all in perspective. I have seen enough death and destruction and if I could put an end to all of it tomorrow I would, but as long as there are two people left on this planet there will be no end to it.

  20. #20
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Who cares, if it makes bad guys dead and helps keep good guys safe then I am all for it!!
    gotta agree here... been pushing buttons to blow things up for a long time.. all the way back to the plunger on the TNT... no more lost limbs running from fast fuzes
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •