View Poll Results: Should Kenai river from Skilak lake out to Lower Killey river become drift only area

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  • Make this area Drift only

    27 31.03%
  • Leave this area open to motor boats

    36 41.38%
  • Limit motor boat use based on water levels

    4 4.60%
  • Close the river on certain days to motors

    20 22.99%
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Thread: poll should Kenai river from skilak out to lower Killey be made Drift only?

  1. #1
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Default poll should Kenai river from skilak out to lower Killey be made Drift only?

    In the past few years, the boat traffic has risen to never before seen highs on the Kenai river above Bings landing. to Skilak lake out.
    Over half of this portion of river has private property along its banks and has a rich history of great fishing and use. Above the Lower Killey river there is no private property and no cabin owners.
    The river is reaching amazing levels of use by both drift boats and rafts, canoes, kayaks etc. and also by many many power boats.
    As river levels drop in the fall, this portion of river above Killey river has a very small channel to motor thru and of course this motor thru channel is the deepest water. This area also is where some of the best fishing for Trout exists. There is concern by some that this very critical Salmon spawning area and Trout and Dolly Varden area is recieving excessive power boat use.
    How do you feel about this issue? and Do you feel it is a problem?

    As you may read below in some of the posts, there was concern that personel property exists above the area I mention in the poll,
    I talked today with a person from the DNR about property etc. and also looked at the Kenai peninsula borough map of personel owned property etc.
    here is the link to the kenai peninsula property ownership map.
    http://mapserver.borough.kenai.ak.us/kpbmapviewer/
    the area above the last house on the keys and straight across the river from it are the last personel property on the river going up stream..
    this would be the area in question, and would make sure that any person owning property along the river could infact access their property via the river with a power boat.. So that is not an issue in this poll as all property above is State and Federal..
    thanks
    Max
    Last edited by Alaskacanoe; 10-04-2010 at 15:59.
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  2. #2
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    Seems to be loaded with guide boats.

  3. #3
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    I say close it all together and eradicate the trout out of the river if you guys can't get along. The salmon would appreciate it.
    I voted to leave the area open to motor boats because no one elite group should be privy to the most popular sport fishery in N. America. I'm sick of transplanted elitists throwing their weight around. Reminds me of the group (aircraft owners) that argue for horse power restrictions on valley lakes Like everything who ever has the fattest wallet and cries the loudest will prevail. I have an idea, how about a yearly drawing for fishing rights on the river? It would be like a season ticket to the Seahawks (except a win would be involved). The days you didn't fish you could scalp your permit on the forum.
    Last edited by fullbush; 10-04-2010 at 08:45. Reason: Wait! I just noticed the author of this thread rents canoes and inflatables? I cry FOUL!!!!

  4. #4
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    A few things that folks need to take into account. 1) Property owners on the South (Funny River Road) would no longer have access to the area from Skilak down to Lower Killey 2) lots of private property from Lower Killey upstream to just below Upper Killey River so to say there is no private property here is false and 3) most of the new traffic on the middle is from displaced anglers from the Upper Kenai River both guided and non guided.

    The fed waters on the Upper have been restricted to a certain number of permits for guides for years and that area is getting more and more use every single year. Now some anglers are moving down to the middle and there is nothing wrong with that but what I am getting at is all a restriction will do is transfer effort to another area on the Kenai. Like from the Killey downstream to Bings or from Bings downstream to Swiftwater.

    One user group (drift only) SHOULD NOT be looking to take from other (power) user groups.

    The low water levels of the past week combined with the tougher fishing has resulted in less fishing pressure lately anyway. Water is now muddly below the Killey but the Kenai has come back up quite a bit so when the water level stabilizes and clears back up....

  5. #5

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    Leave it open to Powerboats. You drifters have the whole upper/canyon to drift. Most people that don't have powerboats are going to complain about powerboats. I am not saying everyone. I know there are people that prefer drifters. I agree something needs to be done down there. Maybe another Drift only day. There has to be a solution to the problem. Maybe some kind of course you have to take to run a powerboat on the Kenai. Just an idea. There is a lot of people that run power boats that don't know whats going on. Everyone can enjoy the middle river.
    I think the biggest issue should be regs on rigs ect.
    -No bait for that section of river
    -rubber nets mandatory for C&R
    -Barbless hooks
    -no taking fish out of the water.


    The internet is what is really killing the fisheries here in AK. Everyone posts their reports/pica and what they were using and where they were ect. 80% of people are not going to put in the effort. Everyone wants free handouts... QUIT Posting reports all the time and flys and every other thing about fishing YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!! It's weird that after the internet was a big thing that is when all of the fisheries blew up!! You used to be able to got to valley streams, kenai , quartz ect and barely see anyone! Kenai less than others but still. I know its great to help people out. I am not trying to be a dick. There is many times where if someones having trouble or whatever i will try to help out. "hey try a dead egg, or flesh seems to be doing good" But come on. 1 post on the internet and thousands of people are now like OMG I know what, where and how. Lets go!!!

    anyway just my .02

    lets hear some other ideas.

  6. #6
    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slayintrout View Post
    Leave it open to Powerboats. You drifters have the whole upper/canyon to drift. Most people that don't have powerboats are going to complain about powerboats. I am not saying everyone. I know there are people that prefer drifters. I agree something needs to be done down there. Maybe another Drift only day. There has to be a solution to the problem. Maybe some kind of course you have to take to run a powerboat on the Kenai. Just an idea. There is a lot of people that run power boats that don't know whats going on. Everyone can enjoy the middle river.
    I think the biggest issue should be regs on rigs ect.
    -No bait for that section of river
    -rubber nets mandatory for C&R
    -Barbless hooks
    -no taking fish out of the water.


    The internet is what is really killing the fisheries here in AK. Everyone posts their reports/pica and what they were using and where they were ect. 80% of people are not going to put in the effort. Everyone wants free handouts... QUIT Posting reports all the time and flys and every other thing about fishing YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!! It's weird that after the internet was a big thing that is when all of the fisheries blew up!! You used to be able to got to valley streams, kenai , quartz ect and barely see anyone! Kenai less than others but still. I know its great to help people out. I am not trying to be a dick. There is many times where if someones having trouble or whatever i will try to help out. "hey try a dead egg, or flesh seems to be doing good" But come on. 1 post on the internet and thousands of people are now like OMG I know what, where and how. Lets go!!!

    anyway just my .02

    lets hear some other ideas.

    make anther day for drift only, but I tell you what not a lot of people up there run late in the year because that water is pretty skinny, and in more then one place, you have to be good just to run it, and if you can make it up there then you shoudl be able to fish and handle the drift boats or what not. It is pretty congested thoughand that is not a good thing. But if people want to fish there bad enough it wont matter what day of the week it is they will do it.

    Also just to point out there is no bait past the upper keely or how ever you spell it????????? But I honeslty don't think a lot of people even use bait up there, I could be wrong though?

    Maybe they should close all the rivers down for a few years, let the rivers fix them self.

  7. #7

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    I am voting "No" as well because of the land ownership deal. But perhaps there is a middle ground here somewhere. How about grandfather rights to use power boats if you are a landowner? Make it drift only but include that one exception. I don't know, it is an issue that could open a can of worms.

  8. #8
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    I am voting "No" as well because of the land ownership deal. But perhaps there is a middle ground here somewhere. How about grandfather rights to use power boats if you are a landowner? Make it drift only but include that one exception. I don't know, it is an issue that could open a can of worms.
    I know of no cabins above the cabin on the north side of the river accross from where the Killey comes in.
    I will look at borough maps and double check though, but the area in question would then be from the fist cabin private land below Skilak lake..
    here is the link to the borough property ownership map, it clearly shows that the last cabin/ home going up river at the Keys, and directly accross from it is where personel property ends.
    so the area in question would of course be from that point on up stream to the skilak out areas.
    http://mapserver.borough.kenai.ak.us/kpbmapviewer/
    Max
    Last edited by Alaskacanoe; 10-04-2010 at 21:45.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceblue View Post
    One user group (drift only) SHOULD NOT be looking to take from other (power) user groups.
    Right on!

    SlayinTrout,
    Nice Post! I agree 100%

  10. #10
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    Rep to ya' slayintrout! Great post!

    Tim

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slayintrout View Post
    The internet is what is really killing the fisheries here in AK. Everyone posts their reports/pica and what they were using and where they were ect. 80% of people are not going to put in the effort. Everyone wants free handouts... QUIT Posting reports all the time and flys and every other thing about fishing YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!! It's weird that after the internet was a big thing that is when all of the fisheries blew up!! You used to be able to got to valley streams, kenai , quartz ect and barely see anyone! Kenai less than others but still. I know its great to help people out. I am not trying to be a dick. There is many times where if someones having trouble or whatever i will try to help out. "hey try a dead egg, or flesh seems to be doing good" But come on. 1 post on the internet and thousands of people are now like OMG I know what, where and how. Lets go!!!
    Pretty good post and I do agree with many of the things stated. But I can't seem to agree with the statement that the internet is killing the fishery. I can certainly understand what is being said, but that's like saying let's shut down all the schools and colleges since I can read and get a good job, I don't want any one else learning reading writing, and arithmetic so I can continue to enjoy my hefty paycheck without competition. The fisheries are a public resource. I hate combat fishing but I cringe to think what would happen if we didn't get more people involved in sport fishing.

    I glean a lot of information from the internet and these posts. It has helped me to enjoy my experience and because of that, not only I, but many of my friends and guests buy licenses which I think in theory supports many of these fisheries through enforcement, habitat restoration, and such. Without the fisherman and hunters, I think we would get over run by the radical environmentalists and those pushing to rename fish to sea kittens.

    I don't like crowds either. But having lived in Alaska since 1971 and growing up in Kenai, I suppose I could be one of those old timers that complain about the river traffic now days. I guess for me, you could blame Spencer Devito's picture holding that massive king in the Mepps catalog way back when...three decades before the internet. Seems like shortly after that, the river got crazy with people...well it seemed that way. Little did I know what was going to happen in the next thirty years. Do I hate the man? Heck no! I revered him. I remember chasing him around the river with my dad. Trying to imitate everything. Still we never caught as many fish as he did. Why? Because you can't just read or even watch the man in action and do as well as he did. That kind of info is never a substitute for experience.

    I think maybe I am feeling a bit guilty since I had one of the first internet fishing information pages. I hand coded the HTML as practice for my work. But if you ever look at my page, I am pretty careful about not giving too much information on locations except for the most popular locations for some of the reasons why I think people hate the new information age. But I have made some great friends from providing the information and I personally have gotten a bunch of my friends into fishing and today they buy licenses, boat, bait, tackle, and fight anyone who tries to wrongly shut down access to this great past time. I just don't want to think I did something wrong or God forbid, I am responsible for ruining the fisheries by providing that information to others.

    Finally, I am a power boat owner...don't own a drift boat.

  12. #12
    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    It's not the internet. Its not the powerboats, the drifters, the guides, etc etc. It is the amount of people fishing the water now. Road access, awesome fishing, cheaper boats, and rafts. Oh and Im a rafter/driftboat owner. More guides, more public with toys. It is all adding up. It is us that is the problem. There are becoming to many of us on a stream. Sooner or later. BOOM! No more fish on
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    I have no heartburn with any boater getting to and from there property, anywhere. any day, on the Kenai but there will be MORE restricted areas to come from the biggest users.

  14. #14
    Member bigcox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slayintrout View Post

    The internet is what is really killing the fisheries here in AK. Everyone posts their reports/pica and what they were using and where they were ect. 80% of people are not going to put in the effort. Everyone wants free handouts... QUIT Posting reports all the time and flys and every other thing about fishing YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!! It's weird that after the internet was a big thing that is when all of the fisheries blew up!! You used to be able to got to valley streams, kenai , quartz ect and barely see anyone! Kenai less than others but still. I know its great to help people out. I am not trying to be a dick. There is many times where if someones having trouble or whatever i will try to help out. "hey try a dead egg, or flesh seems to be doing good" But come on. 1 post on the internet and thousands of people are now like OMG I know what, where and how. Lets go!!!

    anyway just my .02

    lets hear some other ideas.
    I completely disagree with this statement. What is being posted on the internet has already been written in books and magazines for decades. Where is the proof that posting anything about where fishing is hot and what flys are working on the internet hurting the fishing? This makes completely no sense to me. I can tell 100 people what I was using and where I was and I know none of them can replicate the day I had fishing. Most people know what to use and when to use it as it has been written in books/magazines for decades. Karma is a good thing, almost nothing out there is a "secret" so why not share that with other fisherman? It almost gets me thinking as to why you are even on this site if you are not helping other fisherman, I know I have found a ton of information about anything fishing from this webite. I personally find it satisfying helping out others, but I also know alot of people have their honey holes that they don't want to share, and even I have not shared some on occasion.

    Just my $.02

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  15. #15

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    I apologize if I hijacked this thread by replying about the internet. I do believe there is a middle ground where all users have an opportunity. For lack of a better choice, I voted for close the river to motors on certain days. I would have preferred wording more positive like "take turns on the opportunity evenly."

    If there is one good thing about the internet, it does bring a vast variety of opinions to light. Nobody is wrong but nobody is 100% right either. But solutions are required. Though there are a ton more fishermen than PETA members or even other user groups like commercial fishing, they always seem to have the upper hand since we cannot get united. I got my education paid for through commercial fishing so I am not knocking them at all. As much as both groups seem to be unhappy with "sharing" the fish at times, it seems like both sides still are getting to enjoy the resources...even if its not like the good ol'days.

    I am for a moderate solution like perhaps alternating days if the power and non-powered groups truly feel safety and other issues cannot be addressed through education. Otherwise you may see more draconian measures like limited entry in commercial fish or highest bidder gets access like the $300 dollars my host paid so I can catch char in a river in Iceland. It was beautiful, I didn't catch a fish, but I didn't see anyone else on the river that day either. I am not sure that I can support such measures at this time on the Kenai. But something needs to be done. If not, the sports fisherman may end up with a dangerous fishery that yields fewer and fewer fish. That's something I hope we can avoid for the sake of future generations.

    Nobody likes to compromise, but for the good of the river and for the sport, it may be necessary.

    C'mon, lots of sharp people who love fishing are on this site. Let's get some possible ideas and discuss. I wish I had a better more creative solution, but for now, given the selection, I personally choose alternating days or the concept of "sharing" as equally as possible.

  16. #16
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardinal_84 View Post
    C'mon, lots of sharp people who love fishing are on this site. Let's get some possible ideas and discuss. I wish I had a better more creative solution, but for now, given the selection, I personally choose alternating days or the concept of "sharing" as equally as possible.
    You're right Kardinal. You guys can alternate days. Motors every other day and on motor days, no unmotorized vessels would be permitted. You could have bait days and fly days. Wait, we need to throw the plunkers a bone too, so every 3rd day no boats at all. What about a gay and lesbian only day? Whew all these rules, how about we bring in an outside mediator and consult the Dept of Fish & Wildlife in the Peoples Republic of China and see how they would handle it?

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    if you're reading it on the internet, you sure aren't out wetting a line!


    I vote for alternate days. (should be for the entire river)

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    You're right Kardinal. You guys can alternate days. Motors every other day and on motor days, no unmotorized vessels would be permitted. You could have bait days and fly days. Wait, we need to throw the plunkers a bone too, so every 3rd day no boats at all. What about a gay and lesbian only day? Whew all these rules, how about we bring in an outside mediator and consult the Dept of Fish & Wildlife in the Peoples Republic of China and see how they would handle it?
    lol...yah, you already need a law degree to read the regs. Though I detect a "little" sarcasm Fullbush, the examples you give are a good arguments for why simply alternating days may not be the perfect answer in the long run. I guess my first choice was education that leads to a little more common courtesy. There used to be a day on the lower kenai when nobody had heard of backtrolling and bottom bouncing. Now the bank fisherman, boondoggers, backtrollers, and bottom bouncers seem to get along even though there are no regulations.

    Dang, can there be a solution that works for everyone? I sure hope so. Its kind of like the user conflicts that occur on the Little Su and many other places. The worst place will likely be an indicator how all other places might be regulated in the future. As I eluded to other crowded places do have other solutions. Not sure I would use China as an example but many places have strict license requirements (i.e. Germany), daily user fess for sections of rivers (i.e many European Atlantic Salmon streams), or worst of all "no fish" . We are headed that way eventually as the population outstrips the resource. I hope we can make a decision before some radical solution ruins it for the majority of folks or one of us gets hurts trying enjoy a great past time.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskachuck View Post
    It's not the internet. Its not the powerboats, the drifters, the guides, etc etc. It is the amount of people fishing the water now. Road access, awesome fishing, cheaper boats, and rafts. Oh and Im a rafter/driftboat owner. More guides, more public with toys. It is all adding up. It is us that is the problem. There are becoming to many of us on a stream. Sooner or later. BOOM! No more fish on
    I completely 100% agree with slayintrout. How can you guys seriousely think that the internet has nothing to do with it??? Sure some of you might actually get information on good fishing locations from books, but are you really going to argue the point that when say ONE person comes back, posts all their pictures and says, "oh fishing was awesome on the kenai!!! bla bla bla," that there arent a hundred people reading that post at the same time thinking to themselves....heck ya! im gona go fish the kenai this weekened... I know its exciting and can be hard to not tell someone about an amazing day but lets use our brains here.....how can you not think to yourself. "man i had an awesome day, im going to keep this to myself so that it doesnt BLOW UP WITH PEOPLE" You guys want to complain about the river being overcrouded but cant understand that a lot of the problem comes from you all running your mouths. It seems like there are just so many people on here who are trying to prove themselves to everyone.

  20. #20

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    I respect everyone's opinion. My post was just how I feel. I feel that the internet has a big influence on the amount of people on the water. Obviousely thats not the only reason. Any road side fishery is going to get the preasure. I look at the issue of the amount of people fishing and not the quality of fishing. BigCox you are right you can tell people about where and the fly ect and they will not have the same day. Everyone fishes things different. I agree with that. But like I just stated its about the amount of people on the water. If you go tell 100 people OMG I had an epic day on the middle river ect. You don't think a good portion of them are going to go? Of course they are.
    Fishing is still awesome with this amount of people. There are soo many people/guides that don't have good days on the middle river. People think that just because there is big fish there, they are going to go catch a huge rainbow. There is a little more to it than that
    80% of the people catch 20% of the fish and 20% of the people catch 80% of the fish. This statement is not made to be snobby or whatever. A guide once told me that and it seems pretty legit. When you are down there, you always see few boats that are just catching a lot more fish than everyone else.

    I also love to help people out. As I have stated before. But when thinking about the resource I am not going to tell 100 people about how awesome fishing was. If I am on the water and see someone struggling or whatever I will help out bc at least they are putting in the effort and trying. It's different than the majority of people looking for free handouts on the internet.......

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