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Thread: the big question about claiming a moose camp

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    Question the big question about claiming a moose camp

    ..with all the related discussion, it seems there is a worsening trend in moose camps or maybe there are more hunters boxed out of the popular places that have always been like this.
    so the question is: is it appropriate, legal, or ethical to set up the tarp taj mahal a week before the season and take it down after the season is over? also setting up mock tarps adjacent to all sides of your camps to get more elbow room?
    during season you try and hunt as much as possible given your own personal schedule. sometimes weekends only, sometimes not getting out at all but a buddy uses it, etc....?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by holly View Post
    is it appropriate, legal, or ethical to set up the tarp taj mahal a week before the season and take it down after the season is over? also setting up mock tarps adjacent to all sides of your camps to get more elbow room?
    No. But that does not deter the practice. Peer Pressure is the only cure. Apply the Pressure when you see it happening.
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  3. #3

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    The way I see it, is you can set up whatever you want for 14 days. Just don't be pizzy if someone else does the same thing nearby. If you want solitude you better go farther than others are willing to go.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by 257wby View Post
    The way I see it, is you can set up whatever you want for 14 days. Just don't be pizzy if someone else does the same thing nearby. If you want solitude you better go farther than others are willing to go.
    Agree...and so does AK State Law...but....what does this have to do with the OP's original question/senario? ???
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    first it is NOT illegal to have a camp on state land for up to 14 days... then legally you are supposed to move it unless you have a permit to be there. Werther it is a land use permit or prospecting permit or other... those permits come with fees, and requirements of use to include additional reclamation or other...

    personally i have no issue with folks leaving a camp out as long as it is cleaned up at the end. we clean up several sites every year on or around our claim of used propane cans beer cans etc... haul your crap out. if your a light packer and haul your tents with you there are plenty of places to set up a camp... it may NOT be in the pond clearing you want but you can still hunt that pond. we have people looking down on us all year round and have had them come down and shoot moose...

    i have had up to 6 parties on my mining claim that is 160 acer granted my tent and equipment are in the best spot for longevity of the wind factor but there is plenty of room to set up a camp and go hunting from there... most camp in one spot and hunt elsewhere any way. so what is being staked? the level, dry ground or the view? set up to many camps in one spot and the view goes away due to the activity of the area... moose are NOT stupid... they don't like 4 wheelers in heavy hunted areas so activity pushes them out.

    i think the largest argument is the out of area hunter that pays $$$$$$$ to get there is pissed to find some one else already there. if it is road accessible there are people there period. DEAL WITH IT. another persons stuff is there stuff... my stuff is posted NO TRESPASSING so the gent in the other thread that want so go camp finding... would be subject to state and federal laws for interfering with an active mining operation weather i am there or not... and the only way for him to know is to go to the land co and get a plat of all claims in the areas... cause there's a BUNCH of us ... all of whom put up with, help, and clean up after the weekender's there for the partying good time of ripping up trails, trashing landscapes, and being generally rude to folks. we spend just as much to maintain the area for your enjoyment if not more. last weekend alone i picked up 4 CASES of beer cans off a 6mile stretch of trail. the prowler bed was half full when i cleaned it out.

    it is expensive to haul and set up a large tent and equipment ... more likely to get damaged in to many travels... i watch folks stuff all season long. they watch mine when i am not there. and the law says 14 days land use... deal with it. or call DNR if you have a question on a camp site... they will look into it.. its not our place to do so.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  6. #6

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    Is it appropriate? Good Question-proceed to ethics.
    Is it legal? After 14 days probably not
    Is it ethical? Ethics are personal, laws are public. Your ethics may vary from mine but that makes them no more or less valid than mine.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by 257wby View Post
    Is it appropriate? Good Question-proceed to ethics.
    Is it legal? After 14 days probably not
    Is it ethical? Ethics are personal, laws are public. Your ethics may vary from mine but that makes them no more or less valid than mine.
    Yup,
    Hence the laws take precedence.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    We are on the same page!

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Over on the waterfowl forum we have been having a similar discussion about duck decoys set up with no body around. Perfectly legal to do so, but it does set some folks off on both sides of the issue.

  10. #10

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    Public water, decoys out, fire at will! Owners come out they can gather their dekes and move'em while I'm putting out mine.

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    I dont agree with setting up camps to give you more elbow room or fake camps, or even setting up prior to the season starting. I 100% dont agree with stealing, vandelizing, or messing with someones elses property no matter how long its been there. But to set up a tent and then hunt from it throughout the season is acceptable especially and almost the norm here in alaska. I have seen dozens of camps set up this way.

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    There are other posts and whatnot about people messing with other peoples stuff and whatnot but what I have been having problems with is people camping what I think is to close? So leads me to my question, in your opinions what is to close? I have had people close enough I could hit them with rocks. 4 guys came up on us this year and I thought they were to close for safety reasons. We talked and had a agreement then it was broken but that is over. So again, with all this country we have available to us what is to close?

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    Got a question for you concerning mining claims- what's the law say regarding access to a person's claim area? Is the land "yours" to use, and can you keep hunters, hikers, etc. off the entire claim? Thanks in advance for the help.

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    Mining claims are only for the mineral rights only. The state or government still holds the title to the land with one exception and that patented mining claims, where the title is in private hands and therefore private property. Anyone may recreat on regular mining claims. Please be respectful on claims. There are many out there who are tired of people stealing and vandalizing equipment, leaving trash and tearing up the access roads and trails. Hope this helps.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by ANCguy View Post
    Got a question for you concerning mining claims- what's the law say regarding access to a person's claim area? Is the land "yours" to use, and can you keep hunters, hikers, etc. off the entire claim? Thanks in advance for the help.
    The law varies land owner to land owner. National Forest has one set of rules, State DNR has their set of rules and Refuges have their set of rules, etc etc. Some landowners only allow the miner access and no one else can use the trail or claim at all. Some landowners allow everyone to use the trails and the claim for such puposes as recreational use. Regional rules apply. There are/have been instances when the govt built roads for miners and then gated the roads to the public and only give keys to the miners. Gotta do a lot of homework if you want to know specifics about a specific claim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by akrogers View Post
    There are other posts and whatnot about people messing with other peoples stuff and whatnot but what I have been having problems with is people camping what I think is to close? So leads me to my question, in your opinions what is to close? I have had people close enough I could hit them with rocks. 4 guys came up on us this year and I thought they were to close for safety reasons. We talked and had a agreement then it was broken but that is over. So again, with all this country we have available to us what is to close?
    I dont understand why a person would want to camp so close to another to me I like to get at least 1/2 mile or more. but some people dont care and will camp right on top of you

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    If I can see 'em, or hear 'em At All, that's Way Too Close for me,

    shoot I can hardly stand to even anchor up in the same bay with someone else, much less go to shore and hunt the same drainage.
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  18. #18

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    Wow, interesting opinions on this! Almost as good as subsistance vs trophy! I am with Vince and several others on this. I think setting up fake camps to tie up prime area is unethical. By the same token, setting up a camp you use regularly throughout the season is fine so long as you clean up after yourself. I won't go camp in an area where there is someone else actively camping, however if their camp is obviously not in use or hasen't been, then I don't see a problem with camping near there. I still would never go mess with their stuff unless of course I was in dire straights and then I would leave a note with contact information to repay whatever I needed to use (again, only emergency). Lots of people try to stake "their valley, pond, etc" on public land and that is just wrong. We have a huge state and there is plenty of room to camp/hunt for those that really want to do it. I am not sympathetic to the "we have hunted this for twenty years" or "cut a trail in here fifteen years ago" on state land. You open an area, someone is going to find and use it. If it gets you so worked up, why not go through the proper channels and get a mining claim or land use permit so you can have "your sweet little slice of the state pie"? As for taking or messing with peoples' stuff, like others have said, you better not get caught or there will be legal action taken. I don't see any diference between a camp and a truck/RV/fourwheeler, etc. If I leave my truck on state land, do you then have the right to break into it or steal it? Again, I don't see a difference.

    I would also be very careful about getting into an altercation with someone over this issue. I doubt the Troopers are going to be very sympathetic, especially if your camp has been there for more than two weeks. Also, arguing with drunk idiots with guns is probably a pretty dumb idea to. Like the saying goes, arguing with an idiot is not wise; he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Just my two coppers. I know many don't agree, but we live in a free country (for now) and have the right to beat whatever drum we choose.

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    Thanks, I was begining to think I was crazy for wanting a little space out there. The guys that got on us this year thought they were far enough away but were only 400 yards away or so. We basically hunted the same moose for 3 days until the weather dropped on us then they went and camped on top of another camp out there. Reel nice guys.

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    This whole thread bothers me.

    I've seen the fake camps, and know the ones that are for real in the area I hunt.

    That being said I used to hunt one river all my life til we got another place. I still go up said river and still see the same thing.

    Back when I was a kid we used to ignore these camps and called them idiot weekend warriors because very few would try to get where we went, ( and that was'nt easy with a 25hp) we worked our as-s off to get there. 15 years ago the only people you would see up there were the people that wer'nt afraid to get wet. And there were few that wanted to.

    Since the new jetboats were introduced that river has become a playground of which you have never seen. I went up 3 years ago and seen so many fake camps with people camped a 100 yards or less from each of them, people on evey coner. 100 miles up the river and got harresed within the first hour, saying to self this aint worth it, spent the night and the next morn got out of the tent and was looking around and then my hunting partner came out behind me and told me to look across the river and there was a 62" bull looking at us, lol, I held the rifle on him til he was ready and he knocked it over 10' from the river.

    The point is that we kept going til we were away from the nearest camp, I'm going to say a mile, but I did'nt feel confortable even then, one wrong move in a populated area like that could be the death of you.

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