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Thread: bow & stern rope connection

  1. #1
    Member Rising_Creek's Avatar
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    Default bow & stern rope connection

    Does anyone have a way to connect a rope to the bow and stern stem of the canoe?

    I am looking for something similar to the tugeye pictured at this link http://www.tugeye.com/install.html I ordered this part and was told the company no longer sells the kit.

    I was thinking of taking a section of PVC and epoxy it in place.

    I have a royalex old town

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising_Creek View Post
    Does anyone have a way to connect a rope to the bow and stern stem of the canoe?
    Brian Richardson and Mainer_in_AK would be two guys on here that could give you great advice on that exact thing, I think. If they don't chime in here, PM them.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    A lining sleeve can be intalled in the bow and stern of your canoe since it's a double ender. 3/4" piece of PVC pipe and no epoxy is needed. I've done quite a few so if you're around Anchorage, bring the canoe by. Usually only one rope is needed at the bow, it makes things less complicated. you run the long rope back to the stern and hold the slack in your hand. Some sections of river can be so fast that you need to get out in front of the canoe and continue to pull from the front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    A lining sleeve can be intalled in the bow and stern of your canoe since it's a double ender. 3/4" piece of PVC pipe and no epoxy is needed. I've done quite a few so if you're around Anchorage, bring the canoe by. Usually only one rope is needed at the bow, it makes things less complicated. you run the long rope back to the stern and hold the slack in your hand. Some sections of river can be so fast that you need to get out in front of the canoe and continue to pull from the front.
    I knew you'd know.

    Maybe we can do that to the bow of mine sometime this winter, in my nice warm heated garage? The Peroni's are on me!

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    if you have a 2 person team you can fix a 20 foot pvc pipe to the bow [one end] an the opposet end to your partner, you pull the rope from a pack fame, an your partner keeps the canoe out of the bank's in the water, ofcourse you have to temper it a little as to the river you want to travel an the brush / trees on the river I know it works excelent on the rivers off the Denial HWY

    SID

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    Mainer, I'm curious how high above the waterline do you install it, like a third of the way to gunwale from water, or 2/3rds up? Does that make sense, Post a pic if you have one,

    That's a cool idea, I'm on it for mine for sure,

    And Sid, that is also one pretty good idea, what weight and size PVC pipe are you using for that? Seems like might be a hassle to have a big pce of 2" sch 80 around, but maybe you can use 1" sch40 if it's not much current, etc.? probably more like 1 1/2" ?? I guess I'm thinking Solo, so if it's just to keep it away from the bank while someone else pulls the line up river, could be 3/4" maybe, eh?
    Very Interesting Idea tho, I sometimes have to do some lining down a rocky beach to avoid some weather issues and that would work even solo if you had stout enough pipe, right?
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    1/2 or 3/4 will work it don't take much, as the the man in the front is pulling an the other person only has to stear the canoe just to keep it off the bank or around the log or rock let the pipe bend a little bit it won't hurt as for a pulling point if you could be at water line or lower as when you pull it will pick up the bow a little not cause it to go down an dig in, if you have to shout through the pipe that is 20 ft long you better head for shore as the weather is to heavy to do any thing with a canoe, the pipe is just for steering around objects,

    my 2 CT SID.

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    Lining a canoe is not all that difficult. I've been doing it for years and if I can do it so can you...

    We use one length of rope- somewhere between 100 to 150 feet in length. The longer the better for me. Tie one end to the bow and the other to the stern. You will want to hold the rope just short of center with the bow of the canoe pointed just slightly out into the current for best pull and less likely the boat will come to shore. You may make a loop where you find the best spot for holding the rope where you like the canoe to track in the water so you can push the canoe out from shore and find that hold on the rope easier as it slides through your hands and as you start to walk forward. Some folks wrap a piece of fabric there to mark that spot and to make it easier on your hands...

    A few pictures are worth a thousand words...so here ya go...my son lining the river.






    Continued next post
    Grandma Lori If God had intended us to follow recipes,

    this is from last year if you go back in the old post you will see a one person pull there photos to show you around, 23 SEPT 2009 if you can't find it let me know Alaska Grandma was the poster

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    I think I have it now try this it is on this site started by plentycoupe on 9-23-2009 """ HOW DO YOU LINE A CANOE UP RIVER """

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...eferrerid=1802

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Shoot, that is Darn Brilliant, the two lines idea of Grandma Lori's,
    also the guy, Erik in Ak, mentioning just tying off near the bow seat to pull from the forward quarter as opposed to the bow, I can get that easy also

    Thanks Sid, the Forum strikes again, much smarter than I was ten minutes ago..............
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member Rising_Creek's Avatar
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    thanks for the great photos =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    Mainer, I'm curious how high above the waterline do you install it, like a third of the way to gunwale from water, or 2/3rds up? Does that make sense, Post a pic if you have one,

    That's a cool idea, I'm on it for mine for sure,

    And Sid, that is also one pretty good idea, what weight and size PVC pipe are you using for that? Seems like might be a hassle to have a big pce of 2" sch 80 around, but maybe you can use 1" sch40 if it's not much current, etc.? probably more like 1 1/2" ?? I guess I'm thinking Solo, so if it's just to keep it away from the bank while someone else pulls the line up river, could be 3/4" maybe, eh?
    Very Interesting Idea tho, I sometimes have to do some lining down a rocky beach to avoid some weather issues and that would work even solo if you had stout enough pipe, right?

    I installed mine above the water line because I didn't want the bow rope to catch on anything. In my experience, if I'm pulling the canoe through shallows, I'm usually in front of the canoe due to so much weight, and too fast of current to line from near shore, and/or too shallow to bother lining with two ropes. In the picture that I've provided, you can see the D-ring installed at the stern. The D-ring matches the color of the canoe so it may be hard to see. The lining sleeved can be seen in the front. A simple bowling on a bite (sp?) is the knot I use to tie the bow rope. A carabiner connects the rope to the rear D-Ring. The D-rings on the stern ARE at WATER LEVEL because that is the point of power and I'm not worried about the D-Ring being near the water level where I need it. I can do all this type of work to any canoe. I'm a full-time college student so small jobs are a source of income. You can also see my latest adjustable lift-transom design that uses UHMW spacers, and carriage bolts for adjustments. My lift transoms are built of a birch or oak laminate coated with 4 coats of spar varnish. PM me if you need to pefect your canoe. The manufacturers build them, I rig them properly for Alaska. This includes spray-skirts too.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    transom.jpgbow rope.jpg

  13. #13

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    What is wrong with tying it to your front grab handle. Or a short line off of your grab handle.
    That is what I do and it works fine.

  14. #14
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    I have been told, and it is true for my Old Town, that this section is held to the boat by rivets. This would not be as secure as the connection made from a lining sleeve. I have not done much lining, but the pull from a proper lining sleeve position would be more stable for the canoe in a current vs. up higher by the handle. can anyone else chime in here? I am going from what I have read from Cliff Jacobson and been told by other boaters.

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    I'd first as the questions are you solo and would you use one rope or two?

    I can tell you that you do not need any special add-ons (read as extra doo-dads attached) to line a canoe up or down a stretch of moving water.

    Key points on control, leverage with efficiency (conservation of movement and sequencing) are attaching rigged lines to lowest center possible.

    To achieve low center lining... D-ringing above the perspective waterlines is not the best way to accomplish this when finding yourself lining more demanding Class III on up or lining past swifter/deeper waters. Tho' through shallows, logs, and sticks a higher point may be desired to make things less complex and aid from entangling ropes.

    No need for PVC that's prone to failure in load-bearing and shock-loaded scenarios.

    Cargo weight should be downstream!!!!

    Towing a load is two part... positive control and making progress (you & boat safely). Whether or not this is going it solo, having help, with one rope or two.

    Food for thought... in more dynamic to risky linings... consider anchor-systems and friction methods. In other words, don't become attached like an anchor with boat lining you.

  16. #16

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    Okay,
    I've never seen the tugeye method used so I don't know how it works.
    I have lined Old town Discoveries, Bell, and Inflatable canoes up river several times with a line tied to the bow and stern handles and have never had a problem. The handles seem solid.
    I use the method grandma so eloquently displayed-one line that I adjust as conditions dictate. Usually a bit front of center to keep the bow tracking a tad away from shore. With a good river you simply lean and walk up the gravel bars. Mind you, you must switch sides of the river each time the river takes a bend.

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    HI my self peter rose.I live in NY.............................
    thanks for this great photos.............
    i wanna tell about alaska Traveling the various highways and byways in Alaska from the vacationing point of view. Includes tips on Camping in Alaska and many of the campgrounds and RV parks with info as to what they offer.




    Cash For Gold Calculator

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    Quote Originally Posted by peterrose679 View Post
    HI my self peter rose.I live in NY.............................
    thanks for this great photos.............
    i wanna tell about alaska Traveling the various highways and byways in Alaska from the vacationing point of view. Includes tips on Camping in Alaska and many of the campgrounds and RV parks with info as to what they offer.
    Welcome Peter rose, I'm sure you're not a spammer here, though we get so many here,,,,,






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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Regarding lining, PVC pipe will not fail as I've put hundreds of pound of force into a lining sleeve for days on end, no failures and no problems what so ever. I have torn the rivets off the plastic handles of all my Old Town canoes over the years. On a royalex or crosslink 3 hull....a lining sleeve is the only way to go in my opinion. There have been times where I've also ran the lining rope through carabiners (a pulley system) anchored to tree trunks or rocks in an attempt to gain enough power/leverage to get the canoe over terrible sections of river where lining simply wouldn't work. The bow rope was soley connected through the front lining sleeve and was as solid of a connection are you're gonna get. The riveted piece of plastic grab handle in my experience is a worthless point of attachment prone to epic failure.

  20. #20
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    Another thing some people don't realize when they devise up these "well thought out theories", whose basis is only formulated through sincere thought/an educated guess..........is that if there is extremely fast sections of water: YOU CAN FORGET THE REAR ATTACHMENT POINT COMPLETELY. The only way you'll get a loaded canoe up a fast section of river, is to get in front of it, and pull for all you're worth. I know this from experience only, by wearing out a lining rope with my bare hands, the sweat that dripped down my brow, and the bruises on my feet inside the soles of hip boots worn bald (from lining).

    My Mi'kmaq ancestors were once amazing movers of hundreds of pounds of supplies and gear before there were any roads, it feels good to bring that tradition back, but lining can be much more technical and physically arduous than people perceive.

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