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Thread: Black Rifles; which is the best?

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    Member Nukalpiaq's Avatar
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    Default Black Rifles; which is the best?

    Been looking at black rifles today, wondering which rifle is the best. Seen an DPMS today and the new Remington both in .223, read good things about Rock River rifles, wondering about Bushmasters but I am really not too familiar with which ones are the best as in reliability and function, any opinions based on your experiences? looking for one in caliber .223, thanks in advance.

    Rifle will be used for predator (wolf) hunting.

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    Member Bsj425's Avatar
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    What is your price range first off. And are you looking at ar15s only or all "black rifles"? If you are looking at ARs only I would go with a ruger 5.56 it is piston operated instead of gas which performs ALOT better in the cold and makes cleaning alot easier it also has an adjustable regulator so it will cycle virtually any ammo you feed it. If you Are looking at other styles i would get a sig556 for be same reasons as above it just looks better IMO. But what your intended purpose I.e. Hunting or tactical or target shooting And your price Range will narrow your options

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    In general I would agree that a piston is generally more reliable than a gas-impinged (standard AR) system. However Lewis Machine and Tool have just proved many of us wrong by winning contacts to provide their 308 SASS to foreign militaries. Beating piston systems from HHK, SIG and others. So if you are going to get a gas AR, then look at LMT.
    You asked 'black rifles' but have only mentioned AR type platforms, is that by choice? There are many other offerings out there in 223 that are outstanding; MSAR, SAIGA, Steyr and others.
    However, as mentioned by previous poster, the Ruger SR556 is an excellent choice if you are looking for an AR. Excellent short-stroke piston and the adjustable gas allows you to tune the gas for particualr ammo/recoil and also to shut the gas off and have a single shot ability. Great for hi-power rifle/benchrest or hunting as better accuracy can be achieved. Particulary good if you have a supressor as there is no action noise.
    The Sigs are also outstanding AR type platforms.

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    I think the piston AR's are cool, but I don't see the purpose for predator hunting. For me a 16" standard profile barrel flat top carbine with a collapsible 6 pos stock and a free floated hand guard is about perfect. I don't need my AR to do a dozen mag dumps in a row without cleaning. I don't care for all the tacti-cool quad rail stuff either, it is just added weight and generally makes the rifle less comfortable to handle bare handed.

    I have a DPMS upper sitting on a Stag lower and it shoots great. It is all mill spec and I can upgrade almost anything in the package with an hour and basic hand tools. I have about $750 in my rifle and I bought it during the height of the obama scare. I just don't see where spending 3 times that amount to get a piston driven set up would make my rifle one bit more effective in hunting situations. It would probably be worth it I guess if russians or zombies were taking over, but until that becomes a likely scenario I will stick to gas-imp.

    All that said, hard to beat a Colt

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    FN-FAL...bigger bullets ya know.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Member Nukalpiaq's Avatar
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    Bsj425, Rifle is not actually for me but my soninlaw, he said he wanted one for hunting predators while he is out on his trapline or while he is out snowmachining in the backcountry of Fbks. Said he favors the models with the heavier longer barrels, as for price I am thinking somewhere between the $1,000.00 to the $1,500.00 range, maybe a lil more maybe a lil less.

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    I can build him one for decently cheap. I just got done bulding one myself with a shillen stainless heave barrel.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...w-predator-rig!

    The total was around 800 Without the optics and could be alot cheaper depending on if he wants a standard trigger or a regular a2 stock or collapsible etc.

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    Don't forget to check out Stag also.

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    I remember when I wanted a heavy barreled AR for predators! Then I got one and after a couple times in the field dragging it around on the wheeler and sled I realized that big barrel is a heavy PITA!!! I can see it for hot barreled prairie dog plinking but not for 8 hours of carrying and maybe 5-10 seconds of shooting!

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    LuJon, what barrel contour and length would be best for hunting predators off a snowmachine, wheeler, truck or maybe even from a tree stand as some hunters like to do. I am not too familiar with how much these kinda rifles weigh. What woiuld be the ideal weight to shoot for?
    Bsj425 sounds like if a rifle could be built then options for barrels and other component parts would open up as in quality. I will have to fill him in on this other approach.
    If a guy wasnt worried about cost what component parts should he be looking at for building or having a rifle built? Seem there are a lot of platforms and other component parts available on the market to choose from. Thanks

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    You can't go wrong with a Colt 6920.
    PROUD TO BE A VETERAN

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    The single most important part on an AR-15 is the barrel/ barrel extension that the bolt locks into. The lower has little impact on accuracy nor does the actual upper some will disagree but it has been extensively tested and the most important parts are the barrel and extension and the trigger.The second most important part is the trigger but due to how the AR trigger is designed options are limited but just now starting to really open up with the aftermarket but trigger groups can get pricey fast. This is my first with a 2 stage trigger so I will see how it goes. I usually go with the usual trigger setup and just get lightened up WOLFF springs for reduced trigger weight.

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    In terms of production military style ARs, Colts rule. For predator hunting, Colt makes (hard to get) a match rifle with a 24 inch HB which has all of the colt military spec quality.

    Other than that, the SIG DMR also rules. We build specific predator hunting ARs that shoot sub moa and weigh as little as 5 pounds +/-, but we use quality parts and it gets spendy
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    So many good options to choose from when it comes to these rifles, I will need to sit down with my soninlaw and fill him in on what has been recommended. Maybe give him some time to do a lil research on his own and find what he likes for his intended use, which is predator hunting. But keep the recommendations coming, more information the better, know my son has been eyeballing one of the black rifles as well.
    Don't know if I will ever go that route, sure do love my bolt action rifles. Seen a rifle a few years ago that caught my attention though, it was a TUBB 2000 (which is a bolt action). Seemed to be more for target shooting though, think it would be cool to see a hunting version, camo paint job and all, maybe buy a basic stock TUBB 2000 rifle and customize it to a hunting rifle, now that would be way too cool.

    Also came across a brand called Noveske, they have a rifle model called 18" Rogue Hunter in caliber 5.56mm. Anyone ever heard of these rifles before? What do you think of them, price was a lil over the range I mentioned earlier but if the quality is there may be worth the investment. Thanks again.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I like the looks of that Noveske 18" rogue hunter. It has most all of the things I would want in a predator rifle for use while covering county on a sled. It is hard to see the charging handle in the pic on the noveske site but an extended handle is great for getting to around optics, especially with gloves on!

    I topped mine off with a Nikon 2-7x32 with mid height rings. It works great for me. I don't seat the rifle stock into my shoulder like I would with a bolt gun. I just put the bottom 1/3 against my shoulder to bring the stock up high for a nice cheek weld. This way I don't need the super high rings I see on some varmint setups.

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    I'm with LuJon on this. For a trapping sled gun or wheeler gun I want light and easy to handle. I'm easily minute of wolf or coyote accurate out to 200 yards with my el'cheapo Bushmaster Carbon15 R21 topped with a Vortex red-dot and beyond 200 yards if I switch out to my Vortex 3x9. However, with a .223 on wolves I'd rather be in the 200 yard or less range. This rifle tops the scales at 5 1/2 pounds with a loaded 30 round mag and the red dot sight. It's simply a joy to sling over your back and jump on the sled or ATV. I don't really care that it's not a gas piston gun either... I ran it 500 rounds without a cleaning with no ill effects.
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    AKdoug not to hijack but what Vortex red dot do you have ? The Strike Fire or the Sparc? I have been looking at getting the strikefire with the magnifier however I havent found a battery yet that will last in them longer than 2 days in the winter when it is -10 to -30 they all die super fast

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    Another vote for Colt. I have a Colt accurized rifle(6724). I put a Hensholdt 4-16 scope on it and shot easy 1/2 inch groups with factory reloaded HSM ammo. Spectacular for a production rifle. "If it doesn't say Colt, it is only a copy."

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    If there was a "best" black rifle, we would all be selling the same one. But, that being said, Les Baer makes a very nice AR rifle. But who am I and what do I know.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Just assessing what your son-in-law wants/needs and I would guess that "The best black rifle" would be a waste of money and he may find that he could achieve the same results "minute of prairie dog" for a lot less, get far better reliability and not have to cosset his investment so much.
    For a throw on a sled, in a truck, AK predator gun that will give minute of wolf accuracy to 200 yds, will keep shooting no matter what abuse it has suffered........... I would personally buy a SAIGA in 223 ($350) and save my money.

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