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Thread: What Cast Bullets Will Feed in a Puma 92 454 Casull

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    Member kobuk's Avatar
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    Default What Cast Bullets Will Feed in a Puma 92 454 Casull

    i have been shooting cp 265gr wfngc in my puma 92 and was wanting to move up to a little heavier bullet. i have read before on the forum guys using heavier bullets but having to either trim the brass or modify the rifle. what weight and type of bullets have anyone been able to use without any modifications to brass or gun? i do prefer the large melplate and gas checked. the second part of my question is about casting my own bullets with ww. i see that lee makes a 325gr mold with two crimp grooves but i am not sure how fast i can shoot a gas checked ww bullet using alox lube? the 265gr bullet is going 2100fps with no problems but if anyone has cast their own bullets with ww and could share their results i would be thankful. even if it is for a for a slower shooting round instead of the full loads that would be great. i haven't had any problems with the 265gr bullet but i only shot one animal and it was only a 30yard shot and the black bear didn't seem to notice that it was only a 265gr bullet. i guess dead is dead! just from reading it sounds like a lot of people prefer the heavier bullets in the 454.

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    Default cast 454 bullets

    I cast two bullets for the 454 rossi 92. The first is a Lyman that wieghs about 265 with wcww and is a plain base bullet. I'm at work right now and don't remember the load but it's about 1800 fps and is pleasant to shoot with no leading problems. The other is Lee's 300gr gc bullet that is very popular. It weighs right at 317grs from wcww and cronys at 1980fps or so with 31grs of Lil gun. Both bullets feed and shoot very well. 31grs does not seem to be max yet but start a little lower and work up as always. The only thing I have shot with it yet is a Blacktail buck using a sierra 300 gr jacketed bullet at 1600fps. Broadside heart lungs at 75 yds and bullet was not recovered. If you want to come by ( I live in Chugiak) I will give you some of the lee 300s to try. If you don't live in the area I can mail you some for postage. If interested ,give me a call this Sat/Wed. Roger 688-3849. The Rossi is one fun gun to shoot and hunt with. I also replaced the safety with a peep sight and like that much better.

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    rbuck351
    thanks for the info. what are you using for lube? do you think that using a tumble lube with alox would work? your lee mold for the 300 gr bullet, does it have two crimp groves because that might actually be the mold i was thinking about. i just did a range session yesterday and tried another bullet type that i already had, but the cast performance 265 wfngc still shot the best, but boy is it brutal on the shoulder. i also loaded some plain base bullets with i think 10.5 gr of unique for plinking and they are real fun to shoot but were hitting about 12 inches low at 25 yards and way low at 100. i installed a reciever sight and a fiber optic sight on the front and what a difference, even though at 100 yards the front bead covers a pretty large area. i almost think that using a heavier bullet at a slower speed might shoot a little nicer and be a little easier on the equipment and shoulder but still have all of the penetration i would like. what do you think? i will call when i get a chance and take you up on purchasing a few of your bullets and try them out. thanks again.

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    I've had good experience with gas checked bullets that have been tumble lubed. My Marlin 1895 45-70 pushes an RCBS 405 GC TL'ed bullet at 1800 fps and I get 1.5" MOA. Bullets are cast from straight WW. I also have used the Lee 300 GC TL'ed in my Winchester 94 Trapper with great accuracy.

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    Here are 2 I'm working up loads for.



    On the right is the Lyman 452651, 335gr with gas check from ww or 5/1 ww/lino. They cycle great fast or slow with 1 or 10 in the tube with an OAL of 1.745-1.750. The one on the left is a 275gr Lee custom 6 banger mould I bought from a guy off ebay. It drops .454 with ww. I think it was a group buy from castboolits originally. It cycles like butter as well and the OAL is 1.715. But it has a tiny crimp groove. I can get a good crimp with the Lee factory crimp die, I just need to get it seated just right so the case mouth lines up with the crimp groove.

    I've had trouble with the Lyman mould casting small. .450-.451. I added tin, cast hot, etc. I ended up sending it back to lyman, they supposedly reamed it out to spec but the wrinkly sample boolits they sent back with it are not a full .452. I have'nt decided what to do with it yet. I tried beagling my last casting session it it helped a little. I still need to do some more testing to see if I can get a good accurate load that won't lead in my 45 Colt wheel guns and the Puma. Maybe I can get it modified, reamed to drop .454 and remove the one crimp groove. My LBT 355gr WFN .452 drops a full .452 like clockwork, straight ww's or ww/lino. I love that mould. Maybe I need to get one for the Puma.

    I'd like to try a 400gr, + or - I read somewhere that the Lee 2 banger 457-405-F sized down to .452/.454 will cycle. I may buy the Lee and a .454 sizer die and try it out. I slugged the bore on my Puma and it's .452. 10rnds of 400gr 454 Casull in the Puma should make for a good bear protection gun.

    I think the nose profile is what makes the difference. My 355gr WFN's have a huge metplat and will not cycle in 454 brass. No prob in 45 Colt brass or if I trim 454 brass to half way in between 45 Colt and 454. That makes the 454 Short

    Here's the 355gr Hammer that won't cycle in 454 brass.



    Before I started casting my own I loaded up some Cast Performance 335gr and 360gr loads. I determined that with CP WLN 335 or 360 gr boolits the Puma wants the OAL to be 1.750-1.755. It cycles em like butter with that big metplat, slow or fast. But, In order for the case mouth to line up with the crimp groove I had to trim the case to 1.365. Freedom Arms shows 1.365 as spec for the 454, Hogden says 1.380, I've also seen 1.375. My Starline brass after sizing is 1.373-1.380. I loaded the CP 335's to 1950fps.

    Anyway, there's what I've been up to with mine.
    Last edited by Snyd; 01-11-2011 at 16:51.

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    Hey Snyd,
    I have tried some 400 gr's in mine with not much luck. I dont think I can push them hard enough to stabilize them. I dont have my load notes handy but they were pushed right up to 1500fps, and wouldnt even stay on paper. I have some modified 320gr Lee's I am bringing to the range tomorrow loaded up with LilGun. Ill deep you posted.

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    Interesting results with the 400gr heavies. Here's something I posted last spring. I just casted some more today and it looks like I finally got them to .452. I'm going to bump up the load. I should be able to get to 1900 like I did with the cast performance 335's.



    Had some more fun with the levergun. I just got this Lyman 452651 mould. They ended up at 340gr with check and lube, straght ww's, water dropped. They are a little skinny in the front driving band though. I'll adjust some things the next casting session and see if I can get better fillout. 28gr H110, starline brass, CCI BR4's = just under 1800fps 10rnd average. With the HiViz open sites here's how it did. I don't know if I can shoot any better that this with open sites. I was resting the forestock only. At at 50yds the blue dot was sitting on top of the front site, at 100yds I covered the blue dot with the front site. That's dead moose! But, there's room in the case for more powder I'll work it up a little more.

    Last edited by Snyd; 01-11-2011 at 16:52.

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    Soyy I didn't get back sooner. Moose hunt got in the way. The lee mold does have the double crimp grooves and I'm using a home made lube Felix World Famous Lube. (FWFL) I don't know if tumble lube will work or not as I've never tried it. If you think the 265 kicks wait till you try the full house 317s at almost 2000fps.

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    Default Thumper!

    I have one, but the only thing that I have shot in it are the standard 240JHP (don't remember brand) and some 370gr HCGC Alaskan Backpacker rounds. The 370's fed very well and are pretty stout.

    With the factory ammo - it's a joy to shoot. With the 370's - there's pain and suffering on one end and killing and maiming on the other - I just can't figure out which end of it I'm on!

    I love how handy the little thing is, and if I can run across one in 480Ruger - it'll be coming home too.

    However, after shooting some of the 370's, it stripped the screw out that held on the barrel band. Now - if I could just my gunsmith to get off of his duff and fix it for me.

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    flhshvlhed
    Look carefully at what's going on with the barrel band screw. A friend has one that recoil caused the mag tube to pull the threaded part out of the reciever and then the tube climbed over the band screw bending the mag tube. Mine is built differently and has a cap on the end with a flange that locks into a notch in the bottom of the barrel preventing any forward movement of the mag tube. Don't shoot it more until you check the mag tube for it moving forward. With the barrel band screw out you shouls see a notch in the bottom of the barrel and one in the top of the mag tube. They should be lined up. If the mag tube notch is ahead of the barrel notch you have problems.

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    Rbuck - thanks for the reply. While I'm sure that the recoil had caused it, as you said. I believe that mine is a different case.

    In my particular case - either the screw in the barrel band stripped out or the barrel band portion stripped - I can't remember at the moment. The tube is still in position and the tube and barrel both have the notch that you describe.

    Yeah - since it happened, I haven't shot it - but I sure want to!

    As a side note - what kind of luck has anyone had w/ 45LC's? I wasn't able to get that far before it broke.

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    I can't picture what you guys are talking about. Which barrel band? The one around the fore-stock or the one by the front site? I've had mine apart a few times and the mag tube screws into the receiver. I guess some of the earlier models it just slipped in and it would jump and shear off the screws or something regarding the barrel bands. Are yours like that? I've shot quite a few stout loads in mine. So far so good.

    Mine shoots 45 Colt plinkers to 335gr hot 454's great. All are accurate. 255gr Lee rnfp over 8.5gr Unique is my 45 Colt plinking round in my wheel guns. It's like shooting a 22 in the Puma. Loads of fun. One hole 10rnd group at 25yds and whatever I can hit out farther. Same with the 275gr and 9gr Unique. 11gr in 454brass. I love this little gun.

    Any of you guys disable your lawyer safety switch yet? I did mine this summer. Pulled the plug out, put it in a vice, ground off the ear on the safety, made it as round and nice looking as I could then cut the the shaft off so it won't block the firing pin. Put it back in and voila!... now it acts like a levergun should. Jack one in, pull the trigger and BANG! I did some work to the action and trigger as well. Made a difference. I haven't changed and springs and probably won't.

    The chinsy looking recoil pad never fit right. I fixed that up some and re-oiled the stocks, put a sling swivel stud in the stock and rigged up a leather sling that loops around the mag tube in between the mag tube and barrel. Now I can throw it over my shoulder in the fishing hole or berry patch. I think I got it the way I want it. Now if I can just get my 335gr Lyman mould to drop the right sized boolits!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    I can't picture what you guys are talking about. The one around the fore-stock ....
    Yes - that would be the one - the one that goes around the wood.

    The bummer of the whole deal was, that I had bought it, was out of town/country for about 2 yrs, then came back and shot it. I hadn't shot it 20x times, and with about 10x AKBP'er rounds through it, I noticed that the band had slid forward and the forestock was moving.

    I called Legacy, and at 1st they were hesitant to warranty/give me a new part, due to the age. However, I explained my situation, and that I had only shot it about 20-25x. So they said they would warranty it, if I sent the old part back. I got to thinking about it, and figured my gunsmith could fix it better - if only I could get him to get started on it.

    I'm going to check it, and see if the fastening for the tube is the later screw in type, or the earlier press in. If press in, I'll need to address that issue too.

    I pulled the safety out of mine, it was pretty easy - but I like your method better - I'll have to try that way.

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    Steve at stevesgunz sells little plugs. Mines not flush and isn't perfect but not too tacky looking.

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    I would probably send the bad part/parts to legacy and get replacement parts. That way It's all std parts (for future replacement ) and it shouldn't cost anything. My friend got his parts fairly quickly too. I also removed my safety and made a replacement with a ghost ring sight on it. My old eyes like it a lot better than the cheap rear sight that was on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    ...I also removed my safety and made a replacement with a ghost ring sight on it. My old eyes like it a lot better than the cheap rear sight that was on it.
    Cool, got a picture of that?

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    I don't have pictures at the moment and I am at work. I'll see if I can post something this evening. I hope putting pictures on is not difficult as I am not very computer literate.

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    Here's a picture. the sight is a touch crude but works very well and is adjustable for elevation by loosening the nut and turning the sight up or down in 1/2 turn increments.Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Here's a picture. the sight is a touch crude but works very well and is adjustable for elevation by loosening the nut and turning the sight up or down in 1/2 turn increments.Click image for larger version. 

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    Cool! Necessity is the mother of invention huh? I'll post a couple pics of my solution for a sling and my modified safety plug.

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