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Thread: Subsistence with rocks and sticks

  1. #1

    Default Subsistence with rocks and sticks

    I always get a chuckle out of sport hunters when they complain about subsistence hunters using modern weapons (recent sheep debate) to fill the freezer. I also understand how difficult it is to grasp the concept of subsistence hunting when you grew up in a "sport only" culture. Subsistence hunting is about putting food on the table. Why not use the most efficient means to accomplish that? Use a rifle, use a boat, shoot a cow, shoot a calf, shoot a big ram, catch as many fish as you need. Logically, it seems to make more sense to limit "non-subsistence" hunters to primitive weapons because they are in it for the sport. Food for thought.

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    Member MARV1's Avatar
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    They still won't understand the meaning of why? They spend big money to have the most expensive gear, use a guide/transporter, and go find the biggest set of antlers/horns they can find, and pay a taxidermist to mount it up!!!
    The emphasis is on accuracy, not power!

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Well, I've lived in the remote bush going on thirty years now, and I've come to this personal conclusion: Anyone who hunts, regardless of where they live, and salvages all the meat and utilizes it to feed themselves and their family, is really a subsistence hunter.

    Sure, there are degrees to everything, and it may not be the same kind of subsistence as I practice year in and year out, but defining a whole class of hunters with the word "sport," as some kind of denigration or lower class of hunter, is simply wrong in my book.

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truesubsistence View Post
    I always get a chuckle out of sport hunters when they complain about subsistence hunters using modern weapons (recent sheep debate) to fill the freezer. I also understand how difficult it is to grasp the concept of subsistence hunting when you grew up in a "sport only" culture. Subsistence hunting is about putting food on the table. Why not use the most efficient means to accomplish that? Use a rifle, use a boat, shoot a cow, shoot a calf, shoot a big ram, catch as many fish as you need. Logically, it seems to make more sense to limit "non-subsistence" hunters to primitive weapons because they are in it for the sport. Food for thought.
    So all of us guys who don't live in the middle of nowhere are just "sport hunters"? You don't think we don't like moose meat too? Or sheep meat? This is gonna get interesting...

    kudos to you Bushrat.
    Last edited by pike_palace; 09-03-2010 at 10:46. Reason: thnking bushrat
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    I agree 100% with what Mark said.

    I have never hunted for a set of horns. If given a choice between a mature animal with large horns and a smaller one, I may chose the trophy, but the first agenda is to fill the freezer.

    I live rural, not remote, but in a lot of ways I live more primitive than most bush village folks, no power, phone, tv, etc. Just because I dont need an airplane to get to my home, shouldn't mean that what I do when I hunt is not "subsistance". And to be honest, I get a little offended by the implication that I'm not a "subsistance" user based on my race or zip code.

    This is a dead end thread and will only further divide us as consumptive users. Maybe that is what needs to happen to start to sort this mess out.

    I know that I, for one, was upset to listen to Kookesh claiming he overharvested his subsistence limit "because the limit is set too low"

    WTH?

    Is that the right approach for a state legislator to take? What about the laws, the process? Apparently the judge agreed with Kookesh's approach. Sad really, IMO..

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARV1 View Post
    They still won't understand the meaning of why? They spend big money to have the most expensive gear, use a guide/transporter, and go find the biggest set of antlers/horns they can find, and pay a taxidermist to mount it up!!!
    So...on other side of the coin, anyone in a rural/remote area that has a set of antlers on the wall, or a bear skin rug etc. is not considered a subsistence hunter, regardless of the consumption of the meat right? If you recall the pictures of the "subsistence ram", there were several sets of sheep horns and deer antlers on the building in the background.

    My point is, "subsistence" hunters keep trophies, and "sport" hunters eat game meat...so what does that mean? I say it means very little.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I really think the whole "sport hunter" issue needs a serious redefinition. The issue was never "sport vs. subsistence"- its "trophy hunting vs. subsistence hunting".

    "Sport hunter" was a term coined at the turn of the last century to draw a boundary between the person who hunted for meat/ enjoyment/ trophy, etc. and the "market hunter" who hunted for an income (ie. the bison hunters or the plummage hunters of the 1800s). Since market hunting is no longer legal the whole term "sport hunter" should fall into disuse but its been used to define a group of people who are not "subsistence" hunters. "Subsistence hunter" has been used to define a group of people who are located in rural/remote areas and who hunt for a living but its logically indefensible since folks can subsist on wild game no matter where they live just as easily as folks in rural/ remote areas can have jobs and earn an income.

    This whole debate is tiring in the extreme with multiple people attempting to get a leg up on other users and getting some type of preference over somebody else. When you throw the out of state hunters in the mix it just gets confusing...

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    This thread is what's commonly referred to as a troll.

    The original poster is soliciting a response. His solicitations appear to be working.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    This thread is what's commonly referred to as a troll.

    The original poster is soliciting a response. His solicitations appear to be working.
    You might be right... amazing what lies just under the surface.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pike_palace View Post
    This is gonna get interesting...

    kudos to you Bushrat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    This thread is what's commonly referred to as a troll.

    The original poster is soliciting a response. His solicitations appear to be working.
    Yep. This one won't go longer than 2+ pages, it'll get shut down. Fwiw, I don't think either hunter likes it label too much...sport, trophy, or subsistence.

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    This thread is what's commonly referred to as a troll.

    The original poster is soliciting a response. His solicitations appear to be working.
    Uh...yeah

    With the name, join date, etc, its pretty clear. But hey, lets hash it out again!

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default I knew it was a per se troll thread but...

    ...I felt it was important for someone who lives a "subsistence lifestyle" to chime in and call it as I did. Maybe it should just end there, hey folks, we're all subsistence hunters if we salvage and use the meat, end of discussion <grin>.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Game, set, match. Well said Bushrat. Next thread please...this one is done.

  14. #14

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    Issue isn't going away as long as sport hunters continue to whine about subsistence allowances. I find the debate interesting. Here's another one. Ever hear all the references to "native land" here in AK? Native or Native Corp. land is really PRIVATE land. Not unlike a several thousand acre ranch in the lower 48. I haven't lived in the lower 48 West, but curious if hunters there refer to a piece of ground as "German land" or "European land". Are the incidents of trespassing on those lands similar to what occurs here in Alaska? Is there whining about a particular landowner who charges hunters to use his ranch? Just curious.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Changed lures and started over.

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Changed lures and started over.
    If they don't bite on orange, you may as well try green
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Ill nibble...

    German land is in Germany, european land would be in europe. I think your talking about American land...that was traded to the tribes for other concessions (ie pipeline, etc.)

    I thought this was a thread about subsistence, not race, or private land ownership.

    Looks like you need to throw out another line and troll with two threads. I think thats the maximum number of legal lures you can have in the water...

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    I have no real problem with subsistence in itself. I do have trouble with abuse by anyone. I also have trouble when traditional life style is thrown in because there is nothing traditional about Evinrudes and snowmachines. But that's just me. Since I love to hunt for the meat, I'm with Mark, subsistence hunter! I even brought all the meat back from my whitetail hunt back home.

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    "SPORT HUNTERS"? exactly what is that?

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    The trolling waters are getting busy!

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