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Thread: Introduced a friend into reloading and the 358 winchester.

  1. #1
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default Introduced a friend into reloading and the 358 winchester.

    So I convinced a friend of mine to purchase a 358 Winchester BLR and we took it to the range with handloads that were constructed with my guidance. It sure does feel good to show somebody not only how to reload, but for their very first hunting rifle to be a 358 Winchester with a custom handload. The groups from this rifle were amazing, and the shooter did an excellent job of following instruction both at the reloading bench, and the Turnigan shooting pit (since Birchwood is closed on Mon.) The recoil of the rifle was very manageable, and the cases revealed no signs of pressure. This load is slightly over what the Speer manual recommends by 1.5 grains.

    The load:
    250 grain Speer Hot-Cor
    46.5 grains Hogdon 335
    .358 Winchester brass
    2.795" COAL
    CCI LR Magnum Primer (250)
    Velocity: Estimated to be 2,400fps. from the 20 inch barrel.

    There is still plenty of space in cartridge case for more powder, I must develop this into a +P 358 load. Hogdon 335 in half grain increments.........I'm sure I'll have enough space to nip at the heels of 60,000 PSI. After the hunt.......It's time to get this amazing load on a chrony. This load will definitely have potential to be called a "light magnum", and it will definitely approximate the power of a 35 Whelen in a 6.5 lb. 20 inch barreled rifle.

    This friend will be accompanying me on my moose hunt with this rifle and load.

  2. #2

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    Without questioning whether or not a +P loading is needed for a 358, I gotta wonder about introducing a brand new reloader to load excursions beyond the reloading manual. Good news on the accuracy, and good luck on your joint moose hunt. It's that time of year isn't it! Makes a guy proud to be a hunter in Alaska.

  3. #3
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Yes, it could be a bit unsettling from the outside looking in. An in-depth understanding of the under-appreciated 358, and the Actual rounds the Browning Lever Rifle are able to digest warrants this load. Of course, I was the first person to pull the trigger of this rifle followed by a thorough inspection of the case, felt-recoil, and ease of extraction. This new reloader probably won't be performing load development beyond a reloading manual without my direct supervision for quite some time. I can't wait to put this new shooter on a moose in a couple days!

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to run them over a chronograph. Sometimes adding a touch more powder does nothing but jack up the pressures.
    I always thought that the 358 Win is what the 338 federal wants to be when it grows up.

    What is the rifling twist rate on the 358win BLR?

    Winchester 748 also seems to work well for the 250 grain bullets in the 358 Win. I wonder how RL-7 would work?
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    Winchester 748 also seems to work well for the 250 grain bullets in the 358 Win. I wonder how RL-7 would work?
    It may be down to an individual rifle thing, but both of mine are quite happy with 748 and not so with RL-7. I had really high hopes for RL-7 because it works so well in other rounds.

  6. #6

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    The .358win is a nice mid-range cartridge. I think you've way over-estimated its potency.
    Last thing you should try to do is push that round into anything near Whelen or Rem Mag territory...
    60,000 PSI is way beyond what that round or the BLR is meant to safely accommodate.
    How hefty are those locking lugs? Not like I'd want to stress weaken them with +P loads.
    Does Browning endorse such loads?
    Never heard of anyone loading the .358win to +P levels...

    If the bolt in that lever gun lets go, it comes right back between your buddy's eyes...
    They do make a magnum BLR, right? Trade the gun in on one of those and don't look back.
    The .358win isn't much more than a large diameter deer ctg, have to face facts...

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Your ignorance regarding such matters couldn't be anymore apparent. There is no difference in the construction of a BLR chambered in either standard or magnum cartridges. The new 338 Federal (based on the 308 case) is a 60,000 psi cartridge. The 358 is far more than a "deer cartridge". If you've never heard of anyone developing loads to near-338 Federal operating pressures, than you have now. Ask around the forum a bit and listen to the stories of how this cartridge performed on Bear, Moose, and Elk. That's like saying that a 35 Whelen is "large diameter" deer cartridge. I guess Federal should have never pushed the 308 case to 60,000 psi with their 338 federal (with your logic)?

    One more thing lester,

    you should consider maintaining some continuity in the information that you post on this forum. In this thread:
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...-caliber-rifle

    you recommended the 358 to a fellow who was inquiring about a semi-auto rifle that would hold up in the bush, but in my thread, you state it's a "large diameter" deer cartridge. get you're story straight.

  8. #8
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    You really need to chronograph this load since guessing is just guessing.
    WHAT TYPE OF GROUPS WERE YOU GETTING?

    A 250 grain 358 caliber bullet going 2,365 fps adds up to a score of 30.2 on the Taylor Knock Down scale. A 180 grain 30-06 at 2,75 or so comes in around 24 to 25 TKO.
    I picked 2,365 fps because that is how fast a CHRONO tested 250 grain Hornady round nose. load came out of a Browning BLR 20 inch barrel using 42 grains of IMR 4198.

    2,400 fps is about the max for a 250 grain bullet from a 358 Win. Or a 338 Fed.
    There is no reason to try to push it any faster.

    Your H335 load is probably doing around 2,300 +. It is hard to tell because you used Magnum primers. Those tend to give more pressure and velocity,, but also larger variations in velocity and accuracy. I'll bet that if you tried standard primers that the group size would be better and you would only loose 50fps or so. A moose will never be able to tell the difference.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  9. #9

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    I have Rem 700 rebarreled with a 20 1/2" 358Win and would love to have +P loading data for it. So far I have used H4985 and H322 with 225gr Partitions both are at 2440fps. Thats just at or under max listed for the under pressure data for the same 308win case all other 08 cartridges are using. Ben using 200gr InterLock SP's for deer but want something with a better SD and BC than the 200 can offer. Any real differance between the 250gr Speer or Hornady? The Partitions are pricy but will do what I need, and have no faith in the sierra 225gr for core retention.

    Funny the first cartridge I loaded for and why I started loading was +P 35rem loads. Which are still 10% ubder 30-30win presuress. 366D 18 1/2" ported / FED210M / 40grs H4895 200gr CLRN @ 2180fps I have gone to 2200fps but lose accuracy.

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