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Thread: Using micro swivel versus knot for tippet to leader connection.

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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Default Using micro swivel versus knot for tippet to leader connection.

    Can't help myself.

    When centerpinning folks use micro swivels to connect tippet to the mainline. Why is it when flyfishing folks insist on tying blood knots or double surgeons? In both cases we are attaching 6-10 lb tippet to 10-12 lb mono. Perhaps I am not seeing the forest for the trees, but I fail to see any difference. Wondering why I couldn't use micro swivels in both applications. Pretty much trying to rationalize not having to learn these new knots but it did get me wondering.


    Why swivels with pinning yet knots with flyrods



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    Quote Originally Posted by danattherock View Post
    Can't help myself.

    When centerpinning folks use micro swivels to connect tippet to the mainline. Why is it when flyfishing folks insist on tying blood knots or double surgeons? In both cases we are attaching 6-10 lb tippet to 10-12 lb mono. Perhaps I am not seeing the forest for the trees, but I fail to see any difference. Wondering why I couldn't use micro swivels in both applications. Pretty much trying to rationalize not having to learn these new knots but it did get me wondering.



    Why swivels with pinning yet knots with flyrods



    -Dan
    First off, I don't know a dam thing about centerpinning (except for what I read here), but .......how are the swivels attached to the CP line? Some sort of "clinch knot"? Now explain the difference between a clinch & blood knot. When explaining, please assume I know nothing about either.
    Use a swivel on your fly leader and post a report on how it worked for you. Or just use a blood/surgeons knot on your CP & let us know how that works.
    Gary

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    Member Wyatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danattherock View Post
    Can't help myself.

    Why swivels with pinning yet knots with flyrods



    -Dan
    Well because fly fishing is fly fishing and centerpinning isn't! Why do fly fishers use 1x, 2x, 3x etc. tippet nomenclature...because we're special!

    Longer floats, so more chance of line twist! The way you palmer hackle does have an effect on line twisting IMO.

  4. #4

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    The swivels keep your line on the center pin setup from getting all twisted up. Its not a thicker float line like you have on your flyrod. If you don't use the swivels you will notice after a little while that you keep getting loops in your line from it spinning and twisting that can cause your line to tangle up and get messed up on your reel after reeling your line it. There could be other reasons but that is just what i have noticed.

  5. #5

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    For the substitution of learning a new not, i don't see why you couldn't use the swivel on your flyrod. Just more work taking up more time cuz they can be a pain since they are so dang tiny.

  6. #6

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    I have used them on a flyrod. Mainly like quartz where it is a majority dollies. It will help prevent you from getting line twist when the fish go into their death rolls. It works pretty good.
    Depending on your casting style with a centerpin, you will get a lot of line twist. The swivel will help reduce the line twist at the leader/ tippet.

  7. #7

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    I've never tried them, but I'm going to soon. Can make switching flies/beads much quicker, especially if you pre-rig all your setups.
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

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    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    I know people that use them in both situations, I however don't use them in either situation.
    When you use a swivel I think it just gives you an extra point of failure brcause you are tying two knots where one will do the job.
    I also know side casting center pinners will sometimes use a swivel above their float to combat line twist that is imparted to the line when casting off the side of the reel. The best way to combat this problem is to learn one of the spinning type of casts.
    If you can tie a good blood knot or double uni there is no reason to use a swivel IMHO.

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    I should ad the the reason I'm interested in them is because I suck at tying knots and I'm not a great caster...I'm a fly-fishing noob and it might make my life easier and help me catch some fish.
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER_016 View Post
    I know people that use them in both situations, I however don't use them in either situation.
    When you use a swivel I think it just gives you an extra point of failure brcause you are tying two knots where one will do the job.
    I also know side casting center pinners will sometimes use a swivel above their float to combat line twist that is imparted to the line when casting off the side of the reel. The best way to combat this problem is to learn one of the spinning type of casts.
    If you can tie a good blood knot or double uni there is no reason to use a swivel IMHO.
    I agree, a good blood knot or a nail knot goes a long way.

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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    I have been using them for about 5 years now. Especially on my wifes setup and Johnswa's. Those 2 screw up stuff so often it is just so much easier to get them back in the water. The swivel is above the indicator/thingmabobby and I have not seen any difference in the catch rates using them or not. Let me add to this that I only do this when fishing beads.
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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskachuck View Post
    I have been using them for about 5 years now. Especially on my wifes setup and Johnswa's. Those 2 screw up stuff so often it is just so much easier to get them back in the water. The swivel is above the indicator/thingmabobby and I have not seen any difference in the catch rates using them or not. Let me add to this that I only do this when fishing beads.
    Why only with beads? I honeslty don't think it would make a difference if yor leader is long enough, I doubt the fish will see it IMO.

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    I fished chucks rod the past 3 trips with a swivel and had no trouble at all! I also use one on my pin rod. Heard it limits line twist, no complaints so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenaibow fan View Post
    Why only with beads? I honeslty don't think it would make a difference if yor leader is long enough, I doubt the fish will see it IMO.
    For me it's a huge question of cast-ability... You can stick a swivel between your tippet and leader, but that defeats the entire purpose of a tapered leader... Can you say hinge??

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    Quote Originally Posted by AkCrimson View Post
    I should ad the the reason I'm interested in them is because I suck at tying knots and I'm not a great caster...I'm a fly-fishing noob and it might make my life easier and help me catch some fish.
    I agree with Drifter on the point that it is an extra point of failure. It would be worth a little bit of practice and time to just learn a couple of the knots. I do use it on my pin because of how i cast which is something i need to work on because there are times when i have lost most of my pin setup at my swivel point. I dont use them on my flyrod. It wont help you cast better but it might help you lose some fish instead of catch them.

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cube01 View Post
    For me it's a huge question of cast-ability... You can stick a swivel between your tippet and leader, but that defeats the entire purpose of a tapered leader... Can you say hinge??

    ok that I understand, but I don't know how many people use tippets? I dont, maybe I should?
    But you could just use a swivel were your fly line and leader meet and se a knot for leader and tippet.....
    I don't know it seems to each there own and if it works why not? I am sure each of us were taught some thing a little differently and we stumble on to things our selves so why not if it works, or not if it doesn't.

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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    I dont use a swivel on my new line. It is a welded loop line so Im running pre bought tapered leader. On my wifes, Johns, and the setup bowdy fished I usually run straight 12lb mono, swivel at the flyline to the mono, peg the indicator and off you go. This is a to each thier own thing. When My wife and John at busting things off alot, windy cold days and all it is just quick and easy for me to re rig it. It has not affected the catch rate at all and the fish dont know the difference. There is no "wrong" way, Just the way each person likes to do it.

    Oh the only reason with beads bowfan is beads are about the only time I use and indicator. So the indicator is just below the bead and the swivel is on top of the water not in my drift. If Im nymphin I dont want that in the water. Also gin clear streams aka quartz and the russian I dont want the swivel to be seen. I dont think it has any effect on bead fishing as it is not seem. Just my crappy thoughts and experience
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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskachuck View Post
    I dont use a swivel on my new line. It is a welded loop line so Im running pre bought tapered leader. On my wifes, Johns, and the setup bowdy fished I usually run straight 12lb mono, swivel at the flyline to the mono, peg the indicator and off you go. This is a to each thier own thing. When My wife and John at busting things off alot, windy cold days and all it is just quick and easy for me to re rig it. It has not affected the catch rate at all and the fish dont know the difference. There is no "wrong" way, Just the way each person likes to do it.

    Oh the only reason with beads bowfan is beads are about the only time I use and indicator. So the indicator is just below the bead and the swivel is on top of the water not in my drift. If Im nymphin I dont want that in the water. Also gin clear streams aka quartz and the russian I dont want the swivel to be seen. I dont think it has any effect on bead fishing as it is not seem. Just my crappy thoughts and experience

    good food for though, I usually just run an 8 or 10 lb lead to my fly line, however when I fish the middle I do use a tippet, and that is about the only time I do that. But I am thinking about trying the swivel thing, just to see how it works.

  19. #19
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskachuck View Post
    Just my crappy thoughts and experience

    Modesty is a virtue. I appreciate your input man. What I do is tie the leader on to the fly line with a nail knot, I will run 8-9' of 12 lb Maxima ultragreen, then add 2-3' of Maxima ultragreen or flourocarbon. Where this 2-3' of tippet is added is the junction I am considering using a swivel rather than a double surgeons or blood knot. I have an improved clinch knot I have tied for 30 years so doing that on both ends of a micro swivel would be easy. This is also the basic set up for my pinning outfit so it seems logical to use it for flyfishing as well. Being that I am rigging my rod and my wife's, it might save me some time. As a secondary choice, I might learn the uni loop (or similar name) that G-smolt suggested. That would satisfy the same requirement it seems and be quicker than a blood knot or double surgeons. Well, to my fumble fingers it seems that way at least.



    -Dan
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Member Lake creek fishermen's Avatar
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    I personaly wouldnt use a micro swivel, like mentioned before 2 knots equals double the chance of a knot slip or failure. So I stick to a line-line knot.
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