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Thread: Molesting of Fish?

  1. #1
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    Default Molesting of Fish?

    Wonder how common this stuff is?

    http://www.dps.state.ak.us/PIO/dispa...0.20100823.txt

    Case number: 10-79414

    Type: Molesting of Fish

    Location: Haines

    Text: On 8-20-10 at approximately 1000 hours, The Alaska Wildlife
    Troopers in Haines received a complaint of two males in an 1980's white
    Ford truck dip netting salmon from a culvert located at 10 mile Haines
    Highway. Further investigation revealed **** *****, age 44, of
    Mosquito Lake and **** *****, age 46, of Oregon were using a dip net
    to block off one end of the culvert while the other person would use a
    stick to scare salmon threw the culvert and into the dip net. Both
    ***** and ***** were issued a citation for molesting or impeding
    spawning salmon. A mandatory court date is scheduled for Sept 13th,
    2010 at 10:00 am in the Haines District Court.
    Last edited by Brian M; 08-24-2010 at 13:16. Reason: names removed per forum rules

  2. #2
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashesta View Post
    Wonder how common this stuff is?

    I know for a fact it has happened at least once
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    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    This type of stuff happens all the time. It is just rare that people are so blatent about it.

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_dog60 View Post
    This type of stuff happens all the time. It is just rare that people are so blatent about it.
    Well I guess it all depends were you are................further away from the troopers and the green shirts people are pretty blatent.........I have seen people with dip nets in places they shouldn't have been using it to stop fish in a small stream just so they could snag them............I didn't understand the point of that one but hey to each there own I guess. And in case your wondering.......Yes I did call some body.

  5. #5

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    We have allowed ourselves to become nonsensical about this. The general public has been suckered into thinking this type of thing is wrong. How is it truly any different than commercial nets being placed/drifted at the mouths of the rivers; subsistence fishers dipping at falls/tributaries; subsistence fishers setting nets for extended periods of time in the drainage ditches? It is all about Public Perception and how we have been conditioned to think. Just because it is the law, don't make it right. If those guys were putting meat on the table, I personally don't have a problem with it.
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  6. #6
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenaibow fan View Post
    Well I guess it all depends were you are................further away from the troopers and the green shirts people are pretty blatent.........I have seen people with dip nets in places they shouldn't have been using it to stop fish in a small stream just so they could snag them............I didn't understand the point of that one but hey to each there own I guess. And in case your wondering.......Yes I did call some body.
    Well That is part of what I ment. Doing something like this out in a little village in the middle of no where is not as blatent as doing it along the road system. No?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_dog60 View Post
    Well That is part of what I ment. Doing something like this out in a little village in the middle of no where is not as blatent as doing it along the road system. No?
    In fact, you would be labeled as the "Local Hero". The Master Provider if you will. It is a double standard that people have fallen all over themselves for. The only laws I support are those that prohibit the waste of fish and game. Other than that....welp....Jimmy Cracked Corn and I don't.......
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  8. #8
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    We have allowed ourselves to become nonsensical about this. The general public has been suckered into thinking this type of thing is wrong. How is it truly any different than commercial nets being placed/drifted at the mouths of the rivers; subsistence fishers dipping at falls/tributaries; subsistence fishers setting nets for extended periods of time in the drainage ditches? It is all about Public Perception and how we have been conditioned to think. Just because it is the law, don't make it right. If those guys were putting meat on the table, I personally don't have a problem with it.
    I see at least one huge issue with this. Salmon in a small stream are probably on their spawning grounds. Harassing them in that situation doesn't just result in a few fish being caught, it could disrupt existing redds and certainly removes spawning fish. Granted, some of the fish that are killed in the ocean or earlier in the season in the river would have been spawners. But I support the tradition of leaving fish alone once they arrive on the spawning grounds. If we allow those fish to be targeted I believe it will have a long-term effect on our salmon runs. Imagine the impact of people trampling the shallows, chasing fish with landing nets!

    It would take some time to look up the history on this, but I'd be willing to lay odds that the laws we have against this practice are not so much some government agency pulling the wool over our eyes as they are common-sense folks like us saying, "not a good idea".

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    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    I was worried that the offenders had watched too many showings of "American Pie"!

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    I see at least one huge issue with this. Salmon in a small stream are probably on their spawning grounds. Harassing them in that situation doesn't just result in a few fish being caught, it could disrupt existing redds and certainly removes spawning fish. Granted, some of the fish that are killed in the ocean or earlier in the season in the river would have been spawners. But I support the tradition of leaving fish alone once they arrive on the spawning grounds. If we allow those fish to be targeted I believe it will have a long-term effect on our salmon runs. Imagine the impact of people trampling the shallows, chasing fish with landing nets!

    It would take some time to look up the history on this, but I'd be willing to lay odds that the laws we have against this practice are not so much some government agency pulling the wool over our eyes as they are common-sense folks like us saying, "not a good idea".

    -Mike
    I agree with you, if they wreck a stream how can that be good? Even if they are just trying to put food on the table............they can get a smaller table.

    Akres,
    I agree that it really shouldn't matter how you get your fish as long as you are not wasting the fish and not taking more then your allowed, to me the issue I had was these guys were on the top end of a parks stream with a dip net stopping fish just so they could school them up to snag them. The fish were pretty beat up to begin with so I doubt they were keeping them, to me and this is just my point of view they were just out there fishing for the heck of it. And if that was the case either way they were braking the law.

    I don't have a grudge against any sub or comm guys using nets, if fish and game does they're job there is enough fish to go around, and if you want fish you should be able to go get them if you want to work for it. But if your just being a knuckle head kinda like the impression I got from those guys then I have a problem with it. You want to go up the top of the little sue and dip net and you will put the fish to use fine by me, but don't just sit there with a net in the water to block the fish just so you can snag fish to have fun. That is all I am saying.
    Besides people in the sticks have fish wheels and "other" ways of getting they're fish and I have no issue with that what so ever.

  11. #11

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    There are rules and regulations for a reason. Not to prevent people from harvesting fish and having food, but to prevent people from damaging fish populations and harming their natural habitats. Commercial fishing in the ocean kills the fish. Dip netting in a spawning area not only kills the fish but disturbs the entire stream where other salmon are spawning and have already spawned. Big difference, IMO.

    Plus, once you start letting any yahoo fish wherever they want however they want and go unpunished, you get more and more morons who don't care about the future of the fish populations sticking a net in wherever they want. And it's not as if these two sound the least bit credible.
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

  12. #12
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Why would anyone use a dipnet there?

    A cast net is so much more efficient!

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    I am curious why they don't allow cast nets in the dipnet fishery. At least allow them in the salt, I can't imagine throwing one into the Copper!!! But Kasilof or Fish creek would be a cinch.

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Cast nets are entirely too efficient. A couple dozen decent casters could shut off a huge chunk of the fish in the Kasilof.

    It's still odd for me to buy bait.
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    Having eaten spawning fish out of those streams almost 30 years ago, in -that- very stretch of the Haines Hwy, I can assure you that the person catching those fish wouldn't be referenced as the village hero or master provider. They'd more likely be referenced as the Village Idiot.

    Those fish are -SOOOO- inedible for the majority of the month of August, especially in most of those pools that are seen from the highway, along-side the Chilkat River, that when we roasted them in foil on a camp fire, not only were they too disgusting for us to eat, but our two dogs we offered them to wouldn't touch them either.

    When a northern-breed dog (1 norwegian elkhound and an elkhound-husky-german shepherd-coyote mix) turns its nose up at fresh-roasted salmon, you -know- something's not right.

    That one time was all I needed to understand why a person doesn't catch late-season fish in or on their spawning grounds. The word 'bad' doesn't even begin to come close to describing it.

    That said, other than for literally preventing salmon from spawning, or disrupting their spawning grounds, 'molesting of fish' is the -only- reason someone would attempt to catch such fish. Either that, or ignorance. YUCK!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    We have allowed ourselves to become nonsensical about this.
    Please speak for yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    The general public has been suckered into thinking this type of thing is wrong.
    It is wrong. If everyone was allowed to do that the fish would become decimated and the spawning habitat ruined.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    How is it truly any different than commercial nets being placed/drifted at the mouths of the rivers; subsistence fishers dipping at falls/tributaries; subsistence fishers setting nets for extended periods of time in the drainage ditches?
    Not sure what fisheries you're referring to, but all commercial, personal use, and subsistence fisheries in Alaska have established means and methods, and their escapements are managed and monitored for sustainable harvests. If you feel there is no difference, then the law-breakers could've caught their fish using legal commercial, personal use, or subsistence methods.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    It is all about Public Perception and how we have been conditioned to think.
    No. It's about sustaining our fisheries for the benefit of all Alaskans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    Just because it is the law, don't make it right.
    Fortunately some laws, like this one, have good reason. In fact I've never heard of anyone trying to change that law so anyone, including those from Oregon, could block off culverts to spawning grounds and molest salmon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    If those guys were putting meat on the table, I personally don't have a problem with it.
    So are you similarly in favor of anyone, including anyone from Oregon, entrapping and poaching moose, caribou, and other Alaskan wild game to "put meat on the table"?

    Look, if those guys were that hungry for fish, they could've just gone down to the Haines docks with a knife and cleaned off the meat that the charters and locals missed. Or gee, they could've just gotten their fill of fish like everyone else did.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    In fact, you would be labeled as the "Local Hero". The Master Provider if you will.
    No. When no fish were left to spawn, you'd soon be labeled the "Local Decimator". The "Master of Not Providing" if you will.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    It is a double standard that people have fallen all over themselves for.
    Again, please speak for yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres
    The only laws I support are those that prohibit the waste of fish and game. Other than that....welp....Jimmy Cracked Corn and I don't.......
    Using up all the fish and game, by allowing anyone to decimate and molest it, is a waste of fish and game. Not a hard concept unless you're "nonsensical".

    I say lock 'em up and throw away the key. Akres can have visitation rights.

  17. #17
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Molesting fish... I thought this thread was going to be about C&R.

  18. #18

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    My question is WHY??? Why would you dip net nasty spawning fish instead of going out and getting good ones? This is AK, a land of bounty. I just don't get it.
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