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Thread: Damaged Rainbow Help

  1. #1

    Default Damaged Rainbow Help

    Caught this 21" rainbow on the upper Kenai the other day. Is the lower jaw damage a result from flip and rip or some kind of degerative disease?

    Also caught another rainbow that day with a dark green tag (small tube on a thin wire) just behind it's dorsal. ADFG?

    Thanks
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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishnhunt View Post
    Caught this 21" rainbow on the upper Kenai the other day. Is the lower jaw damage a result from flip and rip or some kind of degerative disease?

    Also caught another rainbow that day with a dark green tag (small tube on a thin wire) just behind it's dorsal. ADFG?

    Thanks
    Pass the rainbow tag information on to:

    Tony Eskelin
    260-2904

    I caught one this year and wrote the number down from the tag. Called him. He told me where and when they tagged it last year, size, condition, etc etc. I found out my fish was tagged in july of last year. I caught it june of this year. I also caught it with in 50 feet of where they caught and tagged it. Post the story if you call it in. The do like to get that info from us too and appreciate the call.

    That jaw is probably mosty from being caught over and over on barbed hooks. I see that more than you would think on the river. I doubt it is from getting ripped by coho's. I have seen some pretty tore up fish and they just keep going. I know it is not the law but I wish it would be to go barbless. I pinch all mine

    Plus those bows will root around in the gravel and knock eggs out too and wear the jaw down from some articles I have read. June has caught one with a bottom jaw that had been broke and turned to the side about 3 inches. Still hitting a bead though and it was a solid 24 inch fish. It was an older injury. You could see it had healed that way
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    Member cube01's Avatar
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    My buddy caught a bow on Saturday up on one of the parks steams like that - it's lower jaw was completely gone. The wound looked pretty fresh... We almost didn't have the heart to release him, but figured since he had hit his bead, he must still be surviving.
    I also caught one about ten minutes after that with a missing eye... What is happening to these fish?

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    Member FishSean's Avatar
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    Perhaps it had got ahold of the tin of Skoal I watched an elderly Arkansas gentleman lose to the river.

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    Yes, it is a severe lack of education about our fisheries. People, both locals and tourists, seem to think that trout can be handled like a salmon that is being harvested. I don't know how many times I have helped people release trout because they were dragging them all over the bank and stepping on them to get them to stop moving. I would love to see a hunters safety type course required for getting a license. I know it is unrealistic, but would be nice to attempt to educate folks.

  6. #6

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    Thanks alaskachuck. I'll record the number and call it in next time. Didn't know you could do that.
    Sad to see these fish so torn up. I watched many guys drag rainbows over the rocks and then spend several minutes wrestling them in the dirt and grass for pictures, only to see the fish float by after they "released" them. Haven't found a gentle way to correct these folks yet.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskachuck View Post
    Pass the rainbow tag information on to:

    Tony Eskelin
    260-2904

    I caught one this year and wrote the number down from the tag. Called him. He told me where and when they tagged it last year, size, condition, etc etc. I found out my fish was tagged in july of last year. I caught it june of this year. I also caught it with in 50 feet of where they caught and tagged it. Post the story if you call it in. The do like to get that info from us too and appreciate the call.

    That jaw is probably mosty from being caught over and over on barbed hooks. I see that more than you would think on the river. I doubt it is from getting ripped by coho's. I have seen some pretty tore up fish and they just keep going. I know it is not the law but I wish it would be to go barbless. I pinch all mine

    Plus those bows will root around in the gravel and knock eggs out too and wear the jaw down from some articles I have read. June has caught one with a bottom jaw that had been broke and turned to the side about 3 inches. Still hitting a bead though and it was a solid 24 inch fish. It was an older injury. You could see it had healed that way
    sounds familiar. This fish had same features.


    P9290087.jpg

    The rainbows do dig up eggs from the spawing beds and rocks. I have seen it many times. A lot of fish get hooked on King gear. That will put a hurtin on their fragile jaws. A lot of fish do get mistaken for reds also. Coho Flies do a lot of damage on rainbows. Usually a number 10 or 8 even with a barb wont do a whole lot of damage. (NOT RECOMMENDED) I am just saying. people should def fish barbless if they want to practice good catch and release. Or if they care about these fish. And everyone forgets I know. I have done it many times. I good way to fix that is to pinch it while its still in the fish so it will come out real easy.

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Virtually always the result of oversized barbed hooks... and having them violently jerked out of undersized trout... that then grow up to be ugly old oversized trout.

    Barbless was proposed in the last cycle, but got shot down by the sockeye snaggers. Maybe it's in this years proposal book for another shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Barbless was proposed in the last cycle, but got shot down by the sockeye snaggers.
    You mean sockeye 'catchers'??

    The issue isn't just on the Kenai... Like I said, we were on a parks stream and hit two damaged fish this weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishingsage View Post
    Yes, it is a severe lack of education about our fisheries. People, both locals and tourists, seem to think that trout can be handled like a salmon that is being harvested. I don't know how many times I have helped people release trout because they were dragging them all over the bank and stepping on them to get them to stop moving. I would love to see a hunters safety type course required for getting a license. I know it is unrealistic, but would be nice to attempt to educate folks.
    If there were such a class I'd seriously sign up. I'm new to fishing and I'm trying to figure everything out. From etiquette to technique to even general rules, it's all new to me. I've learned most of what I know just by reading these forums and reading what NOT to do.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Virtually always the result of oversized barbed hooks... and having them violently jerked out of undersized trout... that then grow up to be ugly old oversized trout.
    That is a good point too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ePatrick View Post
    If there were such a class I'd seriously sign up. I'm new to fishing and I'm trying to figure everything out. From etiquette to technique to even general rules, it's all new to me. I've learned most of what I know just by reading these forums and reading what NOT to do.
    Down in Washington, they have a limit on the number of fish that you can catch and release - after you catch and release your 5 fish for the day, you're done fishing... This is due to the mortality rates of fish after being 'released'.
    I've always been an advocate for a hunters safety style class for fishing to protect the fish, and I think if state's like that want to have a catch and release limit, then you should have the ability to take a class and have the limit not apply to you...

    Note that I'm not in any way advocating the catch and release limit, but it would be a good way to get people to take the class...

    Either way, I'll keep donating to Trout Unlimited...

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    We see it plenty out in "remote" areas of Bristol Bay as well....even in fisheries that are largely beads or nymphs. It seems to be more common in areas that have a range of year classes available at the same time, so small trout with more tender jaws getting tore up and then eventually looking like the ones you guys have shown (it's actually kind of hard to mess up a larger bow's jaws unless it's on king gear IMO)...it's largely a matter of lots of folks on the rivers and enough poor fish handling techniques to leave a mark (pun intended) However, it's biological impact doesn't seem as severe as it's aesthetic impact as many rivers receiving high pressure have great populations of mangled yet live rainbow trout.

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    Someone prolly got it on a flip and rip. The red techniquie. Hooked a dolly like that but he got away fine i think
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    It isn't Hook Damage. It is what happens to them, as they dig up the Redds of the Salmon. They dig up the gravel botom of the creek to get to the eggs and eat them. Seen it too often, in areas that don't get fished.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Virtually always the result of oversized barbed hooks... and having them violently jerked out of undersized trout... that then grow up to be ugly old oversized trout.

    Barbless was proposed in the last cycle, but got shot down by the sockeye snaggers. Maybe it's in this years proposal book for another shot.
    I have observed that more often then not the line actually causes the majority of the damage.. Barbed hooks can start the tissue damage, but the line actually seperates the maxialary bone from the flesh.. It would be interesting to study just how many time some of these fish are caught in there lifetime???... Realistically, regulations that change gear types such as extending area's where beads could be used to reduce the number of times the fish are caught in their life.

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    I caught a 9-10 pound rainbow today in the lower Kenai that had a deformed lower jaw. It is obviously a result of being caught and released over and over. We caught it using a 3/0 gammy and eggs. We were targeting silvers and got our limit, but caught that guy as a byproduct. I talked to my uncle, who is a guide, and described the fish. He has caught that same rainbow at least 3 times this season at the same spot. His jaw wasn't in as bad of shape as the pictures above, but it is getting there. I don't understand why they won't let us harvest some of these rainbows. It seems like the lower river is being overtaken by "bows".

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