Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Ballistic Silvertip Shreds Heart Muscle (warning: somewhat graphic on pics)

  1. #1
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kodiak, Ak
    Posts
    3,175

    Default Ballistic Silvertip Shreds Heart Muscle (warning: somewhat graphic on pics)

    %%
    Thought you guys might have some opinions on the results of this "new" handloaders' latest experimenting with bullets and harvest:

    Was all lined up and rested for a frontal shot on fairly large Blacktail (192lbs minus entrails) at 122 yards
    Found it was irresistable opportunity so I took the shot rather than wait for him to turn broadside.
    Figuring that I was almost overloaded for Deer with a Nosler 150gr Ballistic Silvertip cruising at around 2700fps (out of a .270wsm pushed by 60gr of H4831sc) there should be good penetration, even through the chest. Hope I don't blow too much away tho.

    I let fly, centered between the shoulder blades, base of the throat, and felt a good shot was released. I was a little surprised to see no reaction other than the lowering of his head. Even hesitated to reload for a split second as I was so sure it was a good hit. Then as he showed no signs of shock but slowly, with head down a little he turned around calmly taking two steps to reverse direction. I started figuring, "Whoa, I may need to hit him again."

    Before I could get another round in this fine Buck just toppled over, No Jump, No Fleeing, just Head down, two steps to the right and down he went.



    Then, as I was examining for the shot placement, I can barely find the entrance wound, tho there it was, right where I wanted it, and I mean it was "Just" a .277 inch diameter hole goin in and no exit to be found.

    So, while field dressing him I am still amazed as there is not even penetration of the diaphragm behind the lung/heart cavity.

    Am beginning to think, "What killed this deer?" when I go forward and find the heart looking like this:



    So I gotta admit, that's pretty good, the results, a totally nonstressed animal, put down quickly, etc. But I have read on these Forums a few differing opinions about the Ballistic Tips and wonder what you folks think of this result? That bullet didn't go far, I couldn't find any of the little pieces that did that to the Heart but they didn't go past the lungs for sure.

    Honestly, wondering what to think of using the same on larger critters? Thinking, what if I hit the shoulder? I don't know, still mulling it over, thought I'd toss it up for discussion, comments.

    It all worked perfectly, the accuracy of these out of my rifle is proven .5" all day long at 100yds. So that was obviously a big part of this clean kill.

    Once again, It's all about shot placement right?
    But there are a lot of other factors in there as well.

    Sure tastes good that much I can say.......

    Well, no Venison Heart this time, Shucks.......
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  2. #2
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    They are definitely a deer round in my opinion. They will come apart on heavy bone so a shoulder shot is a no go on most AK game.

  3. #3
    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    759

    Default

    i too have taken deer with ballistic silvertips (and elk too) but prefer the 165's over the 150gr. however, it is hard to critisize a quick kill as you have described. in recent years a lot of attention has been directed to recovered bullets and their weight retention, complaints being argued about less than 90%; as satisfactory. use a proper bullet weight for the game hunted and your game will go down (with proper placement). 30-06 improved & 280 ackley improved...both like ballistic silver-tips.

    a quick and humane kill is the reason to select a bullet or load combination.....dead it seems, is after-all dead.
    happy trails.
    jh

  4. #4
    Member moses42ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Peters Creek
    Posts
    202

    Default

    They are a great thin skinned game animal bullet but I would not use them on heavier game....moose, bear (unless it's black) or even elk. A lot of people do use them for elk but one marginal experience was enough for me. I prefer something with a heavier jacket that has a better chance of breaking through bone instead of fragmenting on bone. I don't mind complete penetration nor do I mind finding a bullet on the far side as long as the animal expires quickly.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    166

    Default

    I used to run BT's through my .270 winny. However, a few years ago I shot a small whitetail in the forehead. The angle was downward and the bullet just barely cleared the skull before coming to rest in the muscle. Of coure it was a case of DRT, but I decided I wanted more penetration than that, even if I hit bone. Although my velocity was much higher than 2700...grin.

  6. #6
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kodiak, Ak
    Posts
    3,175

    Default

    Thanks for the replies folks,
    I think my conclusion on this one is "not enough" penetration or shock/trauma to the animal to continue to take Ballistic Tips into the woods with me.
    I hit a Black Bear with a Speer 130gr BTSP this spring, same rifle, and I could see through the scope the impact on his entire body. The bullet traveled across body but spent all it's energy in the vital core. He whirled into the woods with nonexistent lungs for 22yds but it felt like a more sure thing. I would have expected this shot, passing right through the gap in the rib cage beneath the throat, at not much of a downward angle, to pass through the heart and maybe all the way through and out the belly, but would think it would have shook him more. I may have seen that in the head down reaction and just missed the ripples of energy throughout. Maybe the fact that he couldn't jump at allis indication of major Stun Blow, but all things considered, I'm going back to Mushrooms of lead.

    Looking at the heart muscle, it is a pretty tight and heavy piece of meat but thinking if my shot was off by a ways, (I am hunting on the coast where we almost always have 30knots of wind or much more I don't count on firing range accuracy to finish the job when hunting), so always considering the possibility of hitting the shoulder bone or some other heavy piece especially on a heavier animal, this fracturing bullet doesn't seem good enough.

    Back to partitions for my hunting action I think.

    okbowman, I'm still working on the velocity thing, have had a hard time getting the book velocities throughout many bullets and loads I have worked up, not sure what's up with that, that's an interesting note...., still working for me.....grin here also,
    Thanks, your story is sure interesting
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    ,

    so always considering the possibility of hitting the shoulder bone or some other heavy piece especially on a heavier animal, this fracturing bullet doesn't seem good enough.


    okbowman, I'm still working on the velocity thing, have had a hard time getting the book velocities throughout many bullets and loads I have worked up, not sure what's up with that, that's an interesting note...., still working for me.....grin here also,
    Thanks, your story is sure interesting
    Yep. That's exactly how I view BT's too. You might wanna try R17. I've heard some definate hype about that powder, but a lot of good things too.

  8. #8
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kodiak, Ak
    Posts
    3,175

    Default

    Yeah, I also have heard good things from folks who are pretty dialed in on RL-17. I haven't tried it yet just cause it's hard to get powder to an Island (hazmat issues and few gunshops) and tho the local shop has some it's way spendy for them to get it also.

    I've got a lot to learn yet and may come up with a solution for lack of velocity, been about 300fps under book #'s on everything I try. But the accuracy has been very achievable so I am happy with that until this winter when I have time to start experimenting again.

    PS just to clarify also that Black Bear was killed with a Boat Tail Soft Point. Quite the difference. I thought after reading that BTSP sounded like a Ballistic Tip if someone didn't know the Speers
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  9. #9
    Member Matt M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    189

    Default

    The image you have of the heart is one I have seen before. The heart was full of blood when you hit it and a liquid does not compress so it blows out the heart. You can check out "The Perfect Shot" that was written by a guide in Africa who is also a an animal vet. It would be interesting to see if others have pictures of animals shot with the same bullet to see if the bullet construction had much to do with it.


    Cheers,

    Matt M

  10. #10
    Member Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,334

    Default

    I think you made a good decision to go back to a better penetrating bullet design. The way I see it - you just have so many more shot angle opportunities if you have a bullet that will break thru bone. I have had too many animals in prime range "not" offer me the ideal shot for a "soft" bullet, however a good penetrator was good to go!
    As for increasing bullet speed - perhaps a light crimp would help generate some added FPS ?
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    166

    Default

    I liken Ballistic Tips to Power Points. Following is a post I made on another forum:

    "I took this particular rifle after whitetails this November. I was hiking in to a large open hillside when I saw a doe with a dink buck trailing her 120 yards away later verified by my Leica 1200). I wanted some meat, so I popped the doe in the shoulder. She dropped on the spot and the dink ran downhill directly toward me, stopping at 21 yards (again, later verified by the Leica 1200). Since this rifle was previously unblooded I couldn't resist. Upon shooting him directly in the shoulder he ran off, but not before I saw a huge patch of red where the bullet impacted.

    I was shooting factory Winchester 180 grain Power Points, and both deer were shot broadside, with both bullets impacting in the center of the onside shoulder.

    The shot on the doe was perfect, with the bullet completely penetrating both shoulders and exiting. However, bullet performance on the dink was another story. The Power Point blew up on the onside shoulder, and only penetrated a couple of inches. While the onside shoulder blade was broken,I couldn't find any evidence that the bullet penetrated past the bone. Fortunately the dink was recovered after a tough tracking job.

    Lesson learned....the Power Point is too soft of a bullet for high velocity impacts, even in 30 caliber and at 180 grains. It might work okay for deer at longer range, but not reliably so at short range, and definately not on larger game. Time for some X's."

    Brent

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,448

    Default

    It does not take much of a bullet to kill a deer size animal. BT's work great for them. I would never use one on a moose size animal. yes they will work fine if you slip it in behind the shoulder but if you have a quartering away shot you are in trouble. For the big critters i will stick my my Nosler Partitions.

  13. #13
    Member Doug in Alaska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Two years ago I loaded up some 180 grain Ballistic Tips for my .338 Win Mag to take to Idaho for my annual whitetail hunt. Yes, I know it's an over-kill but I like to take a different rifle down there once in a while. The bullets were really, really accurate out of this rifle and I figured with proper shot placement they would do me well. I shot a good sized whitetail buck, running broadside, in the neck and he dropped like a sack of spuds. Funny thing was, there was no exit wound, nothing. The bullet hit the neck bone and disintegrated.

    I'll stick with my trusted and tried Nosler Partitions for the .338 Win Mag. They are impressive!
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Fredericksburg, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    127

    Default

    I have a load that is really accurate in my 270WSM. I use RL22, CCI250, and WW cases. The 150gr BT chrono's at 3100 even for me, and is really accurate. I worked it up strictly for deer. My other load uses all the same components and Nosler PT's and is just as accurate and faster, and would be my choice for bigger game if I used the 270. I think the BT is awesome for deer sized game. Really puts alot of the bullet in the deer and usually seats them in place. Awesome pictures and thanks for your field autopsy! Scotty
    Semper Fi

  15. #15
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    4,839

    Default

    The BT's are made to come apart when they are moving fast. If a bit slower the pentration is much better.

    I shot a mule deer doe in MT at 25 yards on a dead run with 180 grain BT's out of my 300 winny. Hit her square in the heart - it looked similiar to above but a little more torn up and fragmented (if you can believe that). The bullet never exited. She made it another 35 yards and centered a tree with her head where she was dead.

    Couple years later I am hunting Moose in unit 20 with my uncle. We get on a good bull the first shooting morning at 7am. I have my bow and my uncle has his .300 win mag shooting - yep 180 grain nosler BT's. I can't get any closer than 80 yards. Uncle is behind me about 120 yards and uphill. The bull knows the gig is up and starts heading back up the ridge he is on...uncle lets him have it. I hear the smack and the bull swings a 180 and stops - I holler 'hit him again' and WHAP he does. Bull stands up on his hind legs and doesn the death flip sinking his antlers into the tundra. both bullets entered about the same spot on each side and both bullets hung up on the hide on the far side. Centered in the lungs - each taking a rib going in and one of them a rib on both sides. The bullets mushroomed nicely with probably 80% (not weighed - just guessed) recovery.

    I also have shot some good sized mule deer bucks at 40-60 yards with the BT's in .300 that never exited....i don't like them for that reason...uncle still takes them moose hunting on occasion but has switched to accubonds for most of his work.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •