View Poll Results: i would like to see the nelchina herd be...

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  • change the laws and make it draw..

    156 75.73%
  • leave it subsistence but registration permit like 40 mile

    18 8.74%
  • leave the tier system in place

    14 6.80%
  • through it all out and start over...

    18 8.74%
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Thread: what to do with Nelchina caribou herd?

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default what to do with Nelchina caribou herd?

    It is my understanding that the BOG will have a meeting in OCT prior to the November region one meeting regarding the issue of the unit 13 bou herd in an attempt to flesh out some of the details surround this next years hunting status...

    there is no word yet as to weather it will be allowed to have any public input or not.

    however i would like to have a letter drafted to them with some ideas...

    i am posting a poll, with basic questions to get an over all feel of the public perception surrounding this herd. hopefully one of the mods will stick it for awhile...

    i know it is hunting season, but try to get as many people you know to run over and sign in and put in an opinion...

    i am hoping this will not turn into a debate over rural/subsistence/urban crap we always end up with...

    but i will start with my feelings on this and some of the problems associated with it..

    i would like to see the unit 13 go to a full DRAW hunt.
    1-registration hunts will lead to over harvest in short orders and make 40 mile issues seem lame

    2- the 1500-3000 tags would be heavily sought after, allowing for revenue increase for the ADFG to actually have money for other areas they are short funding and need of pred control, moose management, biology studies etc.... honestly i think the nelchina tag would pay the same or more then the delta bison tags bring in...

    3- the current reg of not being allowed to apply the year after you drew would pull you out of the pool and allow for those that did not draw a better opportunity.

    4 - the federal subsistence season and tags already meets the additional needs of subsistence for the local unit 13 residents . this is a registration tag that allows them to hunt on federal lands much of the winter. these tags are already figured into the harvest quota and subtracted from the overall harvest objective.

    5- tag limits could be set yearly to meet harvest quota's dependent on herd population fluctuations... 3000 tags this year might only mean 2739 next year.... or 4300 next year based on calf survival...

    6- and the main reason is this unit is utilized by a huge portion of the states populace but inhabited by a very small portion of the users. this is a highly sought after hunt, that is readily accessible by all / any user via any mean of transportation...


    .........

    NOW... some of the issues that prevent it..

    one this is considered a subsistence hunt,

    the state can not have drawing permits for subsistence hunt areas...

    the legislator will have to amend the statutes and reclassify or actually get out of the 20 year old failed laws that were put into place prior to the feds beginning their own subsistence hunts.

    it would probably lead to another onset of law suits similar to the last 6 by users that require special preferance...

    i also feel the last 6 law suits are what was needed to make these changes...


    I am willing to take some time this season and work with folks to come up with a fair plan... but we all know that fair does not always include EVERYONE... and that is the bight of the issue all along here... so how about some input...
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  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Vince, I voted to make it draw, but how is option 4 different? Wouldn't changing the law in order to make it a draw hunt be the same thing as throwing it out and starting over? Or is there a different option that might be considered which I'm not seeing?

  3. #3
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Additionally, if changing the law is the idea of the letter you will draft, shouldn't it be sent to our state legislators? Perhaps the BoG could send a resolution to the Legislature requesting such a change, but they're basically powerless to effect such a change.

    (Not knocking your efforts here...just thinking out loud to hopefully help make the process better.)

  4. #4
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Vince, I voted to make it draw, but how is option 4 different? Wouldn't changing the law in order to make it a draw hunt be the same thing as throwing it out and starting over? Or is there a different option that might be considered which I'm not seeing?
    not sure Brian, was thinking of that on the way home as i realized much was left our to Keep it simple... option 4 would be for OTHER Ideas, and i hope some come out of all this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Additionally, if changing the law is the idea of the letter you will draft, shouldn't it be sent to our state legislators? Perhaps the BOG could send a resolution to the Legislature requesting such a change, but they're basically powerless to effect such a change.

    (Not knocking your efforts here...just thinking out loud to hopefully help make the process better.)
    no i understand completely... however the BOG will have to be involved in requesting some of the change, in fact the joint boards will be.
    every time we turn around they are being asked to define a poor definition of Alaska statute. in short the BOG is being required to make regulations that fit the laws, that fit the people, apply to the constitution, and always end up in court.. a joint BOG/BOF request to redo subsistence requirements, bring them current to todays standards, will in the end give the legislator the boot they need...

    i SERIOUSLY doubt that you will find ANY state Rep/Senator that would stick their neck out and ask for the state to get out of subsistence, this would apply ketchikan - Barrow... hunting, fishing, trapping... all of it will be affected.
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  5. #5
    Member Toddler's Avatar
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    Vince
    I like the draw idea as I think it will allow a little more flexibility for the mangers WRT the harvest numbers.
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  6. #6

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    Waste of time. Court has put it's mark on this.
    Only those that can see the invisible can do the impossible.

  7. #7
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akriverman View Post
    Waste of time. Court has put it's mark on this.
    So what do you do with this? Say you're a Board member and are tasked with finding a workable solution. Given court decisions, what is to be done?

  8. #8
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I'd like to see it changed to a draw.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Additionally, if changing the law is the idea of the letter you will draft, shouldn't it be sent to our state legislators? Perhaps the BoG could send a resolution to the Legislature requesting such a change, but they're basically powerless to effect such a change.

    (Not knocking your efforts here...just thinking out loud to hopefully help make the process better.)
    This is absolutely correct. And in my opinion, the notion is DOA. Matter of fact, you would have better luck getting legislators to go along with a Constitutional Amendment, Guaranteeing Rural Preference For Subsistence of All Fish and Game Resources. There are not enough votes from those that seek equality and as for fairness, well....Sorry guys and gals, this dog don't hunt. I have to think it is unwise to open this can of worms with the legislature and the general public, because what we seek, ain't what is likely to happen. A few more lawsuits, to ingrain some judicial wisdom, are necessary, before it goes to public opinion and political gain for settlement. Before anyone goes forward with any suggestions and letters, I would suggest they first have it evaluated/crafted by an attorney, familiar with the historical record and Alaska Statutes.
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  10. #10
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Vince, I voted to make it draw, but how is option 4 different? Wouldn't changing the law in order to make it a draw hunt be the same thing as throwing it out and starting over? Or is there a different option that might be considered which I'm not seeing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Additionally, if changing the law is the idea of the letter you will draft, shouldn't it be sent to our state legislators? Perhaps the BoG could send a resolution to the Legislature requesting such a change, but they're basically powerless to effect such a change.

    (Not knocking your efforts here...just thinking out loud to hopefully help make the process better.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Toddler View Post
    Vince
    I like the draw idea as I think it will allow a little more flexibility for the mangers WRT the harvest numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    I'd like to see it changed to a draw.
    How about giving some of the reasons you feel that way all around.....
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  11. #11
    Member RC23's Avatar
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    What about making it a youth hunt?

  12. #12
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC23 View Post
    What about making it a youth hunt?

    up to 5000 kids running around after bou.... interesting idea.
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  13. #13
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    I say make it a draw for blind, crippled or crazy. This way I might qualify for two out of three. Been wanting to hunt or have hunted that area for over 32 years and in the last ten, only qualified once for Bou. Waited till after the rut and the rest of the hunt got cancelled. Something needs to change.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  14. #14
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    I say make it a draw for blind, crippled or crazy. This way I might qualify for two out of three. Been wanting to hunt or have hunted that area for over 32 years and in the last ten, only qualified once for Bou. Waited till after the rut and the rest of the hunt got cancelled. Something needs to change.
    ready to bring your AC into the fray whop?
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  15. #15
    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Vince , My vote is for a draw hunt, That is of course that I don't get elected King and would of course get the first permit and would give out the rest to my needy friends.

  16. #16
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    How about giving some of the reasons you feel that way all around.....
    Sure, I can explain why I feel this way. I firmly believe that all Alaskans should have equal opportunity to game animals regardless of where they live, how much money they make, and without prejudice to race, religion, sex or age. The only way to reach this goal with Unit 13 caribou is a random draw from amongst interested applicants.
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  17. #17
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    easy......... turn fed subsistance areas into "exclusive" subunits.. turn everything else into draw. ....or not

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

  18. #18
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ret25yo View Post
    easy......... turn fed subsistance areas into "exclusive" subunits.. turn everything else into draw. ....or not
    they already are; in the federal regs...
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  19. #19
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    I think we've hashed this over and over and the TRULY fair way of doing things is the draw...

    I think this would simplify the entire process, make it cheaper for the state to run and possibly make it easier to manage...(not to mention less law suits and overall complaining)

  20. #20
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    Default well said doug

    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    Sure, I can explain why I feel this way. I firmly believe that all Alaskans should have equal opportunity to game animals regardless of where they live, how much money they make, and without prejudice to race, religion, sex or age. The only way to reach this goal with Unit 13 caribou is a random draw from amongst interested applicants.
    too bad we have so many people in this state who think otherwise.

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