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Thread: Does the "STATE" have any enforcement of a violation on Federal Subsistense......?

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    Default Does the "STATE" have any enforcement of a violation on Federal Subsistense......?

    Hunter is hunting under a Federal Subsistence Permit, on Federal Land, during the state close season. Who has jurisdiction of a violation. Say a not-legal moose harvested on Aug. 10'th in Hope, Alaska. (Note: State season opens Aug. 20'th but subsistence opens Aug.10'th this is NOT a State hunt, NO state Harvest Ticket) Can a violation be enforced by the State or only the Federal........?

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    So.......How would the state enforce a violation of a Federal Subsistence Permit, on Federal Land........? Say I shot the moose one foot off federal land, and one foot onto my homestead............What would be there juristiction......? (Note: My Land joins Federal Land)

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    The "how" of it would be up to the Arresting Individual. The "who" of it could be anyone, to include your closest neighbor. He could arrest you, if you killed the Moose out of season. Based on your senario, the way you portray it, your homestead falls under State Jurisdiction, does it not? I am not aware of any Private Land in Alaska falling under Federal Jurisdiction. In Alaska, you don't need a badge and uniform to make an arrest.
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    If the act in question was not legal under the Federal season or the state season, then the Troopers could cite you under state regulations. The way I would see it is that it doesn't matter if the person were hunting under the Federal season if they didn't comply with those rules. If they broke both sets of rules, there is no reason for the state to defer to the feds. If the harvest was legal within the Federal regulations, though, then the state must defer. Of course, this is just my take on things, little better than a guess.

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Perhaps there are 2 questions here. Who has ability to issue a citation? Who has ability to "enforce"?
    Most LEOs are dually commissioned (if that is the right word). So both state and fed LEOs can write a citation for both state and fed violations.
    Enforcement comes from the court, and you will possibly be in Fed court with a fed violation.
    FYI...........you cannot get a fed permit without first having a state hunting license.
    All, I'll say that again, ALL, private land is under STATE management. That includes private inholdings within Fed withdrawals, i.e. Refuge, Park, BLM, etc.
    FYI again...........very little enforcement effort is made on WHERE an animal is shot. Bout the only way you will get caught is if your foolish enough to admit it when you turn in the permit.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    So.......How would the state enforce a violation of a Federal Subsistence Permit, on Federal Land........? Say I shot the moose one foot off federal land, and one foot onto my homestead............What would be there juristiction......? (Note: My Land joins Federal Land)
    it may be a federal season and lands but is still state game, and the state still has authority over it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    In Alaska, you don't need a badge and uniform to make an arrest.
    But if you're the mayor of Houston, you do want one.

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    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    SO, if AGL gets a Moose and I get part of it and it turns out to be in violation,do I get cited also?

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    it may be a federal season and lands but is still state game, and the state still has authority over it.
    I'll disagree, Vince. Regulations are enforced through the appropriate court, depending on whose reg was violated. I will add another FYI tho.................the feds are wimps, afraid of tarnishing their imnage with ruralites. They will always backout and let the state take cost and press of prosecution is possible!
    The point hope deal is a prime example.
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    I think Jeff King was a prime example too, but a exception though, because of his 'fame'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Hunter is hunting under a Federal Subsistence Permit, on Federal Land, during the state close season. Who has jurisdiction of a violation. Say a not-legal moose harvested on Aug. 10'th in Hope, Alaska. (Note: State season opens Aug. 20'th but subsistence opens Aug.10'th this is NOT a State hunt, NO state Harvest Ticket) Can a violation be enforced by the State or only the Federal........?
    Is there a state regulation or law that has been violated? Does the state have any jurisdiction where the offense occurred? Those two questions are what need to be answered. The second one is easy enough unless you are in the former Mt McKinley Nat Park where there is no subsistence hunting anyway.

    I'd say it depends on the specific violation as to whether a state officer and court would have jurisdiction. But state officers have little power to enforce federal regulations (here I'll disagree with Martentrapper)...there would have to be a state violation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEDWUF View Post
    I think Jeff King was a prime example too, but a exception though, because of his 'fame'.
    No, it was because of the specific federal agency involved. He should have screwed up on BLM land instead. Oh, that's right, he did that too. Ever hear about it?

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    See the State "Harvest Tag" Moose season opens Aug. 20'th, and the Federal Subsistence Moose season opens tomorrow (Aug. 10'th). The Fed's say I can only shoot a moose on Federal Land, I can NOT shoot a moose on my land till Aug. 20'th under a state harvest tag. Now my land is with-in the Chugach National Forest, so if I wait till Aug. 20'th I can shoot a moose out the cabin window. But if I want to shoot the moose tomorrow I have to walk him over to the edge of my property to where it joins Federal land and harvest said moose there as he steps onto Federal land. I wonder if all of the moose has to be over the line, or only the front half. See the issue is the gut pile, I don't need more bears eating the domestic animals. On my land I can fire up the D-8 and bury the guts, the Fed's get cranky if the D-8 digs holes on Federal land.

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    There seems to be a bit of funny business going on here. The federal land you refer to, is probably either BLM or National Parks. In either case, BOTH have their own law enforcement, or rangers to put it right. They actively patrol their lands and that is all they do. What you should know is that if you get caught breaking the law on Federal land your fine will likely be much stiffer. You will be sitting in US District Court instead of a state majistrate. They don't have quite as many officers as the troopers, but they are well acquainted with their land and do a great job. Since it did occur inside the state the State troopers technically CAN enforce Laws, but only State, not Federal. They are allowed to detain, not arrest, under federal law and then refer to the feds. There is no dual certification, I don't know where that came from. What usually happens if one LEO becomes aware of a violation in anothers jurisdiction, is they call each other and pass it on. They communicate often and thoroughly. AKres is right though, and you should get the word out, ANYONE in Alaska has the same powers of arrest as any cop. It's called private person/citizens arrest. The only thing a regular citizen cannot do that a cop can is serve and execute process....i.e. execute search warrants, writs, DVPO's... You as a citizen have all these powers, including APPLYING for search warrants. A word of caution though, this is dangerous business, and a person is not likely to give in to Joe Schmoe without a fight. Might be best to get lots of evidence and pass it on.

  16. #16

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    Now for Part #B of the question. Does the shooter and the moose both have to be standing on Federal Land, or is it legal if the shooter is on private land and the Moose is on Federal Land. It is clear that most of the moose must be on Federal land.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Now for Part #B of the question. Does the shooter and the moose both have to be standing on Federal Land, or is it legal if the shooter is on private land and the Moose is on Federal Land. It is clear that most of the moose must be on Federal land.
    why dont you look up The jeff king case... moose shot just inside the boundry of Denali Nat park, the troppers invetigated and charged him, the feds convicted him, if your hunting in federal lands, you must be on federal lands to hunt,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    why dont you look up The jeff king case... moose shot just inside the boundry of Denali Nat park, the troppers invetigated and charged him, the feds convicted him, if your hunting in federal lands, you must be on federal lands to hunt,
    So what does Jeff Kings example have to do with this. I have to hunt only on Federal Land, and in theory the subsistence moose can not have any of its feet on my land.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    So what does Jeff Kings example have to do with this. I have to hunt only on Federal Land, and in theory the subsistence moose can not have any of its feet on my land.
    jeffs moose was shot on federal lands, Alaska state troopers, NPS, USFWS, were all involved. ( BTW there is a federal subistance hunt in a larger portion of Denali park lands, in unit 20A)

    and in theory, you can't have any of your feet on your land either...
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    And neither can you. If you are standing on your land, you're hunting on your land. It's not only about where the moose is. As for the gut pile. Shoot one close enough to the edge of your land, drag is the extra 10 feet with a piece of rope from your D-8 to the moose. Gut it on your land and bury it there.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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