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Thread: Beach access denied by set netters?

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    Default Beach access denied by set netters?

    So I head down to a favorite public access area to the inlet near Nikiski with my wife to run our dogs. A group of set netters is there and there is a permanent cabin near the area on the beach. Public access signage mind you. We pull up and over to the side and start driving down the beach to park (not over any lines either) and this guy rolls up on an ATV and says we may not want to park there as they drive by and throw up rocks with their trucks. I think he is just being polite so I say I'll move my truck down the beach and he says that they rent this spot and they don't have to let anyone on the beach especially during fishing season.????? I said this is a public beach and he said that It's theirs, that they rent it. What gives? I've never heard of that before, was this guy out of line? I left a message with ADF&G to see about clarifying this. I just left as I'm not about to get into it with several guys there and my wife in the car etc.


    Mountaintrekker

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I don't know about that area and if there are special laws but it sounds like he was blowing smoke to me. Lots of guys out there using mis-information to deter others. Thats a good reason why I open carry an auto handgun rather than a big wheel gun and pretend to have a sour disposition when approached by guys like that. Most of them are just pansies with a big mouth that don't want to stand up to anyone that may actually smack them in it.

    open carried auto handguns are to asshats what deet is to mosquito's.

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    Member Rob B's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=LuJon;open carried auto handguns are to asshats what deet is to mosquito's.[/QUOTE]

    LuJon, I've always loved reading your posts. This one is the best. I totally agree.

    Rob

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    Member anonymous1's Avatar
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    The DNR issues shore fishery lease plats that give setnetters exclusive set net fishing priviledges to net locations. They DO Not give the lease holder any exclusive access rights to State owned tidelands. Unless there is an upland arrangement for the access to the beach I would say the guy is blowing smoke and should be taken to task

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    Usually the beaches are open but one must be careful. The land above mean high tide can be private and therefore depending on where one is you could be on private property. Also, there are a few parcels that have homestead rights and go below mean high tide. So it is hard to know in this situation. However, ADF&G cannot help you. They have no authority to do anything. The only law enforcement is State troopers.

    As far as carrying guns and having confrontations that is just not good thinking over an access issue. What are you going to do shoot the guy for verbal abuse? I would suggest a better approach is to tell the person you are going to check on this with the troopers and ask for their names and fishing permit numbers. They will not give them to you so then pull out your cell phone and take a picture of them and start to call 911 - at this point you have evidence of their illegal activity and have documented that you are not confrontational. Having a gun visible means if there is a problem you have to prove you are correct with two sides to every story. Sometimes people go to jail who should not.

    A picture gives ADF&G and the Troopers something to check out. Three guys on a beach is not much to go on. I use to get these calls all the time as there are people who fish ( most of the time is is crew members not the permit holder) that cause problems. If we knew the person or site we could contact the permit holder and see if the property is a homestead or not and if they are aware that shore fishery leases only apply to commercial fishing operations not public access. Also for the record it is not just the net location - some older leases include the beach and therefore no other commercial fisherman can even use that beach to land their catch. This has come up with people who commercial fish offshore and have no beach to land on.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Nerka, you missed my analogy. Deet doesn't kill mosquito's it deters them. I have found the same peace with my handgun, Since I started wearing it I just find people to be much less confrontational.

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    True, but most set net sites have guns and they may not be as responsible as you. With over 2000 people out there commercial fishing it only take you meeting the wrong one who thinks you are going for your gun or tells authorities you were.

    I am not trying to be judgemental here of your position just caution that some of these people in that area have lots of fire power of all kinds. I had to go out one time to a cabin to talk to someone and the place was full of trip wires and all types of weird stuff. The guy met me at the gate and took me in only to find his cabin full to the top with rifles, handguns, and ammunition. I mean literally full to the top. We sat down on ammo boxes for furniture. He was really nice and I was viewed as being O.K but one just never knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    True, but most set net sites have guns and they may not be as responsible as you. With over 2000 people out there commercial fishing it only take you meeting the wrong one who thinks you are going for your gun or tells authorities you were.

    I am not trying to be judgemental here of your position just caution that some of these people in that area have lots of fire power of all kinds. I had to go out one time to a cabin to talk to someone and the place was full of trip wires and all types of weird stuff. The guy met me at the gate and took me in only to find his cabin full to the top with rifles, handguns, and ammunition. I mean literally full to the top. We sat down on ammo boxes for furniture. He was really nice and I was viewed as being O.K but one just never knows.
    Yikes....sounds like the compounds out near Willow to me. Nothing being paranoid with guns......

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Nerka, you missed my analogy. Deet doesn't kill mosquito's it deters them. I have found the same peace with my handgun, Since I started wearing it I just find people to be much less confrontational.
    Dearest Sir,

    Are you slinging your weapon now? If so, you really bring a lot to the forum and appreciate your valuable insights. If not, you can kiss off.....LOL. See what a gun does to people?
    I do hear though and have a good one.

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post

    open carried auto handguns are to asshats what deet is to mosquito's.
    That's good stuff!
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post

    open carried auto handguns are to asshats what deet is to mosquito's.
    Or are to asshats what a red flag is to a bull. Depending of course on how many beers the asshat has had.
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
    - Jef Mallett

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    Or are to asshats what a red flag is to a bull. Depending of course on how many beers the asshat has had.
    In the end of every Bullfight.......sure, a bullfighter might get a horn or hoove now and then, but......inevitably the result is the same. EVERYTIME
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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    Just because there's a nearby public beach access, doesn't mean a setnetter has to let you use his leased tideland. Setnetters are only required to reserve a public right-of-way access to the water and other tidal land. So unless they wouldn't let you pass (which they did), or you couldn't find a way to the water (which you could), or you couldn't access other tidal land (which you could), they are not in the wrong by asking you not to use their leased tideland (for parking, dogs, etc.), especially when fishing it.

    It is the asshat public that trashes their set net sites, shoots holes in everything, leaves beer cans and garbage around, cuts their running lines, lets their dogs crap all over the place, and so on. Can't blame the setnetters for standing their ground.

    As for the gun...My experience is that guys who carry guns and pretent to have a sour disposition just to put on a "tough guy" act, are usually those asshats, and the first ones to run when their bluff is called. No problem here carrying a gun...but not as a showboat tool to deter others. Carry it for self defence. And only show it when you need to use it. As for "pansies with big mouths"...strap your gun on and tell that to those Nikiski set netters face-to-face and see what it gets you tough guy....

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Clearly we have a reading comprehension problem.... I don't talk to rude belligerent people, that is the point. I want people like that to leave me alone and anything I can strap on that encourages them to do so without encumbering my enjoyment of the activity at hand gets a go ahead from me. It's not a show boat tool, it just hangs there comfortably in a chest holster.

    If the set-netters don't have legal rights to the property then I do blame them, as it stands I don't know one way or the other in this situation. That said if someone is trashing the place then call the troopers, it's there job to enforce the laws.

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    ya i noticed the guys that wanna teach you how to fish the russian often dont give much advice when they notice your handgun in the open, i like that better then being told im to far in the river.
    Semper Fi!

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    Hey graythorn, you are too far in the river, you need to step back and let others play too!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Gramps, if you read the shore fishery lease I think it says for commercial fishing only. Other uses of the beach cannot be prohibited by the shore fishery lease holder unless the lease is from a private individual who owns the tidelands. We have gone around and around on this one and if I want to go down and sport fish next to a shore fishery lease set net I can do it with the full protection of the law.

    However, if it is homestead land or native land that is a different story so one needs to know the type of lease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Gramps, if you read the shore fishery lease I think it says for commercial fishing only. Other uses of the beach cannot be prohibited by the shore fishery lease holder unless the lease is from a private individual who owns the tidelands. We have gone around and around on this one and if I want to go down and sport fish next to a shore fishery lease set net I can do it with the full protection of the law.

    However, if it is homestead land or native land that is a different story so one needs to know the type of lease.
    I honestly think setnetting is a thing of the past and they need to issue em drift permits an give the drifters their allocation....one mans opinion
    Oh yeah did I mention let the drifters have da beach
    Last edited by fullbush; 08-04-2010 at 20:35. Reason: can I give myself rep points for that? I deserve em

  19. #19

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    Well, I will just throw this out there I guess.....Folks from all user groups need to show each other a bit more respect than what I have seen here in the last few days. Calling folks asshats, implying that other user groups just let their dogs crap everywhere, and having a pissing contest to see who is the toughest isn't going to win a lot of people over in my book. In fact, it is kinda sad from my perspective and a problem that runs pretty deep here in AK. Perhaps we can all work harder to see each other's perspective? It seems a lot of us are a little stuck where we always are (wherever that is) and have a "hell with you attitude". Real progress will only be made if we can evolve beyond that at some point. Have a good one guys

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I want people like that to leave me alone and anything I can strap on that encourages them to do so without encumbering my enjoyment of the activity at hand gets a go ahead from me. It's not a show boat tool, it just hangs there comfortably in a chest holster.
    How do you think showing them you have a handgun encourages them to leave you alone?

    Hopefully you understand intimidation doesn't work on everyone, especially if they have a handgun too. In fact it usually backfires. A tough-guy carrying a handgun isn't going to stop me from approaching him if he's being an "asshat". And if he touches his gun, he'll never see the light of day again.

    I carry inconspicuously, not as some show-boating intimidation statement. And there is only one reason I carry...self defense of life. Somehow detering loud mouths doesn't fall into that category...unless you think they are going to kill you.

    BTW, how can you possibly enjoy an activity if you're already so worried about others ruining your day that you have to strap on a handgun?



    Nerka, I could be wrong, but from my experience the lease does not require the set netter to reserve access everywhere and anywhere on the site, especially for vehicles, dog walkers, and so on. Afterall, the purpose of the lease is for the development of setnet fishing, and if that activity is hampered by public activity, the State is at fault on the lease. The lease only requires that the setnetter reserves a right-of-way for access to the water and other tideland. The setnetter can't block you off, but he can tell you he leases the beach (he does) and tell you to move your vehicle off the beach where he is fishing (why he pays for the lease).

    Shore Fish Statutes

    Most setnetters and the public get along just fine. But it's not uncommon for setnetters to be victims of crime. I worked at a setnet site that was vandalized, trespassed, used as a dump, for target practice, theft, and so on. I had to shovel the defecation and garbage off the steps just to get into the door. So I can understand why setnetters who are paying for a lease discourage the public from using their sites. I know the last thing I wanted on our site when I was fishing was a public's vehicle in the way and someone walking their dogs. It's a big beach and no need to do that where someone's setnetting.

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