Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 156

Thread: Predator Control Effectiveness

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Predator Control Effectiveness

    While this debate has raged for a couple of years on the forum, it is now time to put the issue to rest. The jury has passed judgement. Clear and convincing Scientific Evidence by Professional Bio's, to the sound of mind, can be found in the latest findings in Unit 13. In less than a year the Moose and Caribou Populations have rebounded from being in dire straits to that of Surplus. To the extent of Multiple Hunts, Multiple Seasons, Lessened Antler Restrictions and ultimately more meat on Alaskan's Dinner Plate's. Let the naysayers, the doomandgloomers and the habitat protectionists now eat crow for the Proof is in the Pudding. The numbers can be managed, the habitat is suitable and dead bears and wolves don't eat.

    It is now time to extend the measures to every corner of the State and bring forth increased opportunities for all Alaskan's to enjoy.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    Predator control only changes the top predators. In this case now it becomes man when allowed by season harvest. If no season harvest its back to Mother Nature through starvation then rise in alpha predators and the circle is complete. The meat is never wasted just used by other sources,the caribou still die
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  3. #3
    Member mit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Predator control only changes the top predators. In this case now it becomes man when allowed by season harvest. If no season harvest its back to Mother Nature through starvation then rise in alpha predators and the circle is complete. The meat is never wasted just used by other sources,the caribou still die
    How profound I bet no one ever thought of that...........
    Tim

  4. #4
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Funny, if you think about it coyotes compete with wolves for the available food source and wolves will kill them on sight. Foxes compete with coyotes and coyotes will kill them if they get the chance. In reality it is pretty natural to reduce competition to increase your own position.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Funny, if you think about it coyotes compete with wolves for the available food source and wolves will kill them on sight. Foxes compete with coyotes and coyotes will kill them if they get the chance. In reality it is pretty natural to reduce competition to increase your own position.
    Yup,
    But of all the Natural World, only a few humans possess the guilt to place themselves on the bottom of the Food Chain. Some would starve to death, to allow a Wolf to feast. Strange critters...some of us humans.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,085

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    While this debate has raged for a couple of years on the forum, it is now time to put the issue to rest. The jury has passed judgement. Clear and convincing Scientific Evidence by Professional Bio's, to the sound of mind, can be found in the latest findings in Unit 13. In less than a year the Moose and Caribou Populations have rebounded from being in dire straits to that of Surplus. To the extent of Multiple Hunts, Multiple Seasons, Lessened Antler Restrictions and ultimately more meat on Alaskan's Dinner Plate's. Let the naysayers, the doomandgloomers and the habitat protectionists now eat crow for the Proof is in the Pudding.
    In a year? I think it's been a lot longer than that .

    You're forgetting that human predators have been controlled for just as long or longer in Unit 13 as the predators Akres. Instead of shooting them out of airplanes tho, they just used different schemes such as spike-fork-50, and tier 1 and tier 11 subsistance to limit human take. You know, managing humans instead of managing animals. With the reduction in human predation also came a reduction in ATV's running all over the countryside. I personally think the managing humans had a bigger effect on the recovery than did predator control.

    Remember, it was human hunting and habitat destruction that reduced game populations in the US to alltime lows (and that was after most 4 legged predators had also been knocked down to historic levels or wiped out completely) before managing hunters brought them back (and 4 legged predators too).
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
    - Jef Mallett

  7. #7
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    If we could just get the wolves to abide by SF50 regulations.

    SF50 is not simply managing humans it is managing herd dynamics. In whitetail country they have some neat term like Quality Deer Management" (QDM) to describe this type of program.

  8. #8
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Marshall
    Posts
    1,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    In a year? I think it's been a lot longer than that .

    You're forgetting that human predators have been controlled for just as long or longer in Unit 13 as the predators Akres. Instead of shooting them out of airplanes tho, they just used different schemes such as spike-fork-50, and tier 1 and tier 11 subsistance to limit human take. You know, managing humans instead of managing animals. With the reduction in human predation also came a reduction in ATV's running all over the countryside. I personally think the managing humans had a bigger effect on the recovery than did predator control.

    Remember, it was human hunting and habitat destruction that reduced game populations in the US to alltime lows (and that was after most 4 legged predators had also been knocked down to historic levels or wiped out completely) before managing hunters brought them back (and 4 legged predators too).
    DANG! Twodux! I Heard that SLAP! all the way here in Marshall!!!!I betcha yer hand is STINGIN'!

  9. #9
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    We must remember that if there were no hunting regs unit 13 would be void of caribou and not because of wolves and bears but because humans are special and its their right some how.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    We must remember that if there were no hunting regs unit 13 would be void of caribou and not because of wolves and bears but because humans are special and its their right some how.
    First and foremost....lest we not forget....Humans are the Regulators....the Bears and Wolves, not so much.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  11. #11
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    If there were no water we would all die of thirst, if there were no food we would all die of starvation, if there were no air we would all suffocate.... Lucky for us we have water, food, air, and a surplus of caribou in unit 13 thanks to smart regulation.

    Like my old man said when I was a boy. "D@mnit son, you can what-if yourself to death, but at some point you are just going to have to except things how they are. You know, here in the real world!"

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    First and foremost....lest we not forget....Humans are the Regulators....the Bears and Wolves, not so much.
    And the worms feed on all when all said and done as we are regulated when the plagues come.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  13. #13
    Member Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    We must remember that if there were no hunting regs unit 13 would be void of caribou and not because of wolves and bears but because humans are special and its their right some how.
    That's bogus. What narcotic?

  14. #14
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    Remember, it was human hunting and habitat destruction that reduced game populations in the US to alltime lows (and that was after most 4 legged predators had also been knocked down to historic levels or wiped out completely) before managing hunters brought them back (and 4 legged predators too).
    It was UNREGULATED hunting and habitat destruction that reduced pops in the past, Dux. No relevence to this discussion. Most factors effecting animal pops in Alaska are also unregulated. Weather, reproduction, and non human predation. In the case of unit 13, human predation has been regulated for quite some time. Recently, we stepped in and made an effort to regulate SOME of the non human predation. If you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts, fine. Don't expect rest of us to do the same!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Yup,
    But of all the Natural World, only a few humans possess the guilt to place themselves on the bottom of the Food Chain. Some would starve to death, to allow a Wolf to feast. Strange critters...some of us humans.
    Now, thar's the Reel "Profound Statement", right there.
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Now, thar's the Reel "Profound Statement", right there.
    Its just cyber chatter
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,085

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    It was UNREGULATED hunting and habitat destruction that reduced pops in the past, Dux. No relevence to this discussion.
    Thanks for helping make my point Mike! I knew we could agree on something. Unregulated human hunting and habitat destruction was what wiped out most of the game animals in this country. Not unregulated 4 legged predators. Most game populations, with the exception of whitetail deer were at all time highs when Europeans started taking over North America and that is in spite of big native predators being at all time highs too. And when humans started regulating predators, they wiped them out too. Things had to be refined by regulating human hunting. In other words, to manage the animals, they had to manage the humans. I hear complaints about that on this board all the time. "They aren't managing the animals, they are managing people!" And that is because people make the biggest impact nowdays on game populations. If left to their own, without human intervention one way or the other, Alaska's 4 legged creatures would get along just fine. Sure, there would be ups and downs as nature has a different manner of managing than humans do, but things would be fine barring some cataclysmic event like a volcanic eruption or an asteroid hitting the earth.

    Thanks again for having my back!
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
    - Jef Mallett

  18. #18
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    It wasnt sport hunting or subsistence hunting that wiped out anything. It was market hunting that was the destroyer of animal populations. Now we have farming and ranching and the much more significant habitat damage that it causes to feed the masses, who eat their hamburgers, live in their cities and blame the sport and subsistence hunters for killing all the wildlife.

  19. #19
    Member Mkay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    748

    Default

    More deep thoughts to add....
    1) If the Aztecs would have had bolt-action rifles, we would all be worshipping Quetzocoatal.
    2) If there were no alcohol, the Irish would rule the world.
    3) Points 1 and 2 cannot be both true.
    That is all for now, Bob
    My child was inmate of the month at Mat-Su pre-trial Correctional facility.

  20. #20
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mkay View Post
    More deep thoughts to add....
    1) If the Aztecs would have had bolt-action rifles, we would all be worshipping Quetzocoatal.
    2) If there were no alcohol, the Irish would rule the world.
    3) Points 1 and 2 cannot be both true.
    That is all for now, Bob
    All I know is that without the alcohol an Irish car bomb sure would be a lot more sinister...

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •