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Thread: Quality Or Hype?

  1. #1
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Default Quality Or Hype?

    I started a new thread because I was just about to comment on the Simms wader thread, but I didn't want to offend anybody. I started this thread to discuss the high priced hype of this sport.
    W/ that said, I bought a Ross reel about 15 years ago for a couple hundred bucks. I felt extremely guilty spending this kind of money on a fly reel. After I used it I was relieved and it still serves me well. Recently I needed to take my sinking tip off and replace it w/ floating because I never got an extra spool. In my junk pile I found an ancient Martin reel w/ floating line on it so I decided I'd try it, I was just going down to the river behind the house nobody will see me. Guess what? I have caught hog after hog on that reel since I put it on and aside from being noisy and not having an adjustable drag it worked just fine.
    I would like some honest input here. Lets break it down together. Do we as fly fishers really need 800.00 6 weight rods when Lamiglass seems to work fine? Why buy the expensive rod when I've broken 3 Lamiglass rods in 3 years, whether it be from sweepers, shutting it in the car door or simply stepping on it. Point is why would somebody spend a thousand bucks on a rod? It cost several hundred dollars for Simms waders and wading shoes when Costco, Walmart and Sports mans have perfectly good ones for under a hundy. Fly reels; this salesman at a local fly shop was trying to talk me into a 400.00 dollar fly reel ! I'm going, isn't a fly reel basically just some thing to hold fly line?
    Just a little fly box was 20 bucks. 250.00 for a fly tying vise? thats a lifetime supply of flies for gosh sakes. 250.00 sunglasses? Friends I'm feeling pressured to keep up w/ the Jones but is it really necessary? For what its worth I succumbed to the pressure and went and spent 350.00 last night, Yes I replaced the trusty Martin so now I have 2 Ross reels one w/ sinking tip and one floating.

  2. #2
    Member power drifter's Avatar
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    That's funny!So if it's about not spending so much money on the sport than why didn't you just get another spool for your reel?
    Now you got your 5 or 6 weight covered you only need 3-4 more weights.LOL I agree with you on the $800 rods, but there really is a big difference in cheap and high quality. As for the simms waders I know there are many other cheaper ones out there that will work just fine, but if you had a pr of simms that fits you good I bet youd be ready to fight if some one tried to take them away from you. They really are great. It is hard to put a price on fun! O wait-$350

  3. #3
    Member FishGod's Avatar
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    I will pay the extra money for upper end gear. Fact of the matter is, I break stuff. I need something with a lifetime warranty. I fish hard ALL year long. My reels are expensive because when I hook into a 20# pissed off Kenai rainbow, that drag system had better be smooth on that first blistering run. I buy expensive waders because I not only play in them, but I work in them also. I have owned every low cost brand of waders out there and they all rip within the first month or two. My simms hold up MUCH better than the bargain brands. I hike so much that low end wading shoes blow out or the felt is gone in 6 months. All my rods are expensive and have lifetime warranties. For someone that fishes once a month, sure go with the lower end brands. If you have a fishing problem like I do (fish every week of the year), I would pay for the higher end gear. My vice was 250 bucks, but it has lasted me ten years. Low end vices fail me after a year or so.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Excellent feedback FishGod!
    So you're telling me if you break a rod no matter what the circumstances, it gets replaced? That right there is reason enough!
    What rods do you recommend?

  5. #5
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by power drifter View Post
    That's funny!So if it's about not spending so much money on the sport than why didn't you just get another spool for your reel?
    Now you got your 5 or 6 weight covered you only need 3-4 more weights.
    Like I said my Ross is 15 years old I would have to contact the company for another spool. I have a 10 weight too

  6. #6
    Member FishGod's Avatar
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    I have broken my St. Croix & Loomis rods about a dozen times. No questions asked EVER. I had a new or fixed rod in 1-2 weeks.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    It's funny, I get the same questions from my wife about my golf gear. Why pay $500 for Titlest when a $75 knock-off will work just as well. Guess we all balance or spending based on how much we use our gear and what we want to risk for results. I only fish occasionally so I don't get the high-end fishing gear but I watch out and pass on the super cheap stuff too, especially if I find bad reviews on it.

  8. #8
    Member JediMasterSalmonSlayer's Avatar
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    Default I got kids to feed!

    Hey this jedi loves to fish, but I got kids to feed.

    I was taught the act of balance...what you want and what you may need are 2 different things, add what you can afford to that and my champang taste do not equal my light beer budget. If I bought high end gear all the time I would would not have enough left over to pay for gas in the car, boat launch fees and lunch at quick stop. My recommendation, make friends with people on the forum with high end gear and then just barow their stuff! problem sloved! Pressing my easy button saying "that was easy" if you happen to break their high end gear, they can always send it back with the great warranty it comes with, right?

    Be prudent, I have found most mid-line gear holds up well and i still have enough left over to take the wife out for aniversary dinner.

    Although I like to have more gear and more high end gear, I can only get what I can afford. I am saving now for a set of simms waders, by the time I save enough my 14 year old daughter will need more school clothes or school fees for sports or clubs. Not to mention auto insurance cause I just got my 18 year old off and now the 14 year old needs to get on. Well I can dream, maybe someone can donate a prize like that this next year for DOC's Kenai King Count game? This Jedi will use the Force again when he enters next year..hehe.

    My point: Life is expensive, so do a cost base analysis. what can you afford to spend? what do you need to catch the beast? You can always pull a "Beyonce" or a "let me, let me, upgrade" when you bust el cheapo or just barrow your buddies stuff...right Big Cox?

    Next year I plan to amke a video 'stick and string' a video production on how to catch a salmon with a stick and string, what do you think?
    http://www.myfishingpictures.com/watermark.php?file=133776
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  9. #9
    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    Excellent feedback FishGod!
    So you're telling me if you break a rod no matter what the circumstances, it gets replaced? That right there is reason enough!
    What rods do you recommend?
    Yep!!!!
    I run a lot of Sage rods and no matter how it broke they are replaced for a flat $50 fee.
    Last fall I had 2 rods break. One was my favorite Sage RPL 490 4wt and the other an RPLXI 790-3 7wt. Both are long out of production and I thought I was going to recieve newer replacements. Much to my surprise when they came in they had built me brand new rods with the same blanks and components as the originals. I have been fishing these two rods for years and I get to keep on fishing them for years to come.
    As has been said, you get what you pay for. You can spend $200 on a rod that has a 1 year warranty and then you break it 2 years down the road and get to spend another $200 on a replacement Or you can buy a higher end rod like a Sage (sure the initial layout is more but you have peace of mind that if you break it a feww $$$ will get you a brand new replacement). Loomis does this as well but I hear they are upping their replacement cost to $100. You will also notice a big difference in performance between a cheaper and a high end rod.

    Oh, the two rods I broke last year one broke due to operator error and the other was broken when my dog fell on it and made my 3pc rod into a 6pce rod.

  10. #10
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    I started fishing with just a stick and string.

    Fly fishing gear is a funny topic. Some folks are dead set on using exclusively split bamboo rods.

    I've got a couple of really nice rods that I put money into. I never fish them as I don't want to break them.

    The cheapo TFO rods are pretty fun for smaller fish.

    My wife and I were talking about this subject last week on the Denali highway. She asked which rod I have caught the most fish on. After considering her question I realized a funny fact. I've caught several thousand fish on a cheapo Cabela's 5 piece 4 wt that I bought 10 years ago. The tip broke last year while my 2 year old (at the time) was goofing with it.

    I enjoy casting the rod and know how to make it dance.

    Reels? I like a good, smooth drag. The Lamsons fit the bill for me. Inexpensive, functional, and reliable,three of my favorite things.


    As for waders, if my Sims Convertibles were stolen or lost tomorrow I would have a new pair on the way as soon as I had internet access.


    Tight lines!!
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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  11. #11
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Jedi, you are the man! With that tidbit of advice I'm heading to Willow this afternoon to fish w/ bowdy15 and I will be holding my head high wearing my canvas walmart wading boots

  12. #12

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    The less a guy fishes, the harder it is to sort fashion from function. A lot of guys I know will do just as well with a Shakepeare rod as a Sage, but wouldn't dare be seen with one. I know guys that fish so few times each year, they'd be money ahead to buy cheap old boot-foot waders, not even neoprene, and replace them every couple of years than they would with any pair of breathables plus boots.

    But the more a guy fishes and the harder he is on gear (and the more he knows how to actually use the gear), the more likely the investment in premium gear will pay off. Better warranties, better function, and better longevity will pay off sooner or later. If you can take advantage of any built-in performance advantage, are likely to wear the gear out, or are a basic klutz like me, get out your checkbook.

  13. #13
    Member egreife's Avatar
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    Jedi sums it up for me also. I don't have the big bucks for a Sage in every weight, but I did get a 4wt last year begore the shop closed down in Fairbanks. But my 19 year old 7 1/2' Cabelas rod I made from a kit is still slaying those grayling on the Chena, just as it did those trout in Az and Co years back. I think I spent $65 on it. I have to admit that waders are what really confuse me on the prices. $300 for some breathable waders!? Sheesh!

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    Member icb12's Avatar
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    I like what Jedi said....

    No offense Fullbush; but you sound like a man who has never used high end gear.
    NO, we don't need it. But trust me...

    Cast a Z axis vs a 9 ' cabelas. Z will outshine the other rods in EVERY aspect.

    Wear a pair of Simms and compare them to 90 dollar caddis creek waders... the simms.

    Use 250 dollar vise, and compare to a cheapo vise..

    Compare a cheapo reel to a high end reel.

    20 dollar wading kicks compared to some higher end pair.

    See where I'm going?

    It isn't just fishing. Take goretex coats. Pay for a cheap goretex coat and you'll be disappointed with performance. Drop 500 on an Arcteryx beta and all of a sudden, goretex is the best thing ever.
    Did I need that 500 dollar Mystery Ranch pack? Probably not, an old packboard would have gotten the job done. But I pay for a lifetime warranty and performance that is unparalled. Was it worth it? Absolutely.
    30 dollar bushnell binos get the job done, but 2500$ leica geovids are crystal clear, lighter, and better in every regard.

    Obviously, not everyone can afford the best of everything, nor is the best necessary for most people. Im certainly not suggesting that high end expensive gear is necessary for anything. I rock cheap waders and a TFO. But my waders are barely 3 months old and already have wear spots. If I COULD afford it, I'd rock the best. You pay for quality, and in my opinion, quality is worth every penny. It's just money man, you can't take it with you to the heavenly fishing grounds.

    Personally, I'm wrapping my tool and keeping that finger bare so eventually I can afford a Sage in every weight ...

  15. #15

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    Personally, I'm wrapping my tool and keeping that finger bare so eventually I can afford a Sage in every weight ...


    this is good stuf. I thought that way also, but iam tying the knot.

  16. #16
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Default if ya don't believe me ask the guys chasin me

    Quote Originally Posted by icb12 View Post

    No offense Fullbush; but you sound like a man who has never used high end gear.
    icb12 have ya looked at my avatar? See that brand new gillnetter? That my man is "high end gear"!
    FYI when it counts the ol' fullbush sports "high end gear" trust me on that one

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    See that brand new gillnetter? That my man is "high end gear"!
    Obviously your mom taught you not to play with food!!!!

    Just kidding, and very nice rig.

  18. #18

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    To me, it's all about the quality and reliability of the gear. If I take time off work to get out and go fishing, the last thing I want is broken or failing gear. I've bought the best I can afford, which usually is too expensive anyways, but I haven't been let down yet. The first time, that mid-level piece of gear I buy decides to fail me, I would've wished I spend 5 times that amount. Maybe if I lived in a state where every corner had a Cabela's or Orvis store, it'd be different, but up here, it's few and far between. I guess that's why I own a sat phone too....for that call in to order more high end gear.

  19. #19

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    When it come to waders that is where I draw the line on getting the best. You can catch fish with any number of rods and any number of reels. Experience and technique factor in much more to successful fish catching than does multi hundred dollar gear when you are fishing 90 percent of water. Granted as your skill improves and you start fishing more technical water you are going to want nicer rods/reels to match that big water and big fish.

    However I the places I like to fish are not right off the road system. They take some walking to get to and most of that is through some unfriendly brush and rock fields. I have now tried out two different middle to high end waders in cloudveil and scierra and both of them have underperformed. They have each lasted less than a season while my friends' Simms have taken the same beating mine have without so much as a scratch. On multi day floats I live in my waders, often over 10-12 hours a day and even a small hole can make those hours miserable. There is a reason that most guides you see will be wearing Simms and not hodgemans.

    My opinion is that if you plan to do anything other than get out of your car and be at the stream 2 minutes later you really should invest in some good quality, life long, waders. To me its like buying a sportsmans brand raft vs a brand new AIRE. Both may float you for a while but when s*** happens and you happen to run up against a log you are going to want those nice double walled welds to keep that air in your tubes. Same goes for waders, on a week long steelhead trip of a lifetime you don't want to be forced off the water cause your seam split in your 100 waders. Get your rods/reels to match your skill level and the waters your fish but never skimp on warmth, comfort and reliability when it comes to your clothes, waders and wading jacket included.

  20. #20
    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Armo
    There's a reason Cloudveil earned the dubious nick name Cloud Burst.

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