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Thread: supercub wantabe?

  1. #1
    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    Default supercub wantabe?

    Is there a plane out there that has the supercub abilities that doesn't carry a $100 to $120K price because of its name?

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    No .

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    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    Its just a plane. The pilot brings the abilities.

    Arctic Tern
    Scout
    7GCBC
    Husky (although not really saving money here)
    Heck, there has been a 160/150 taildragger with 31's for sale CHEAP on the Kenai peninsula for a couple months now. Like $35K I believe.
    I bet that thing would do well.

    90 percent pilot
    10 percent aircraft

    You can buy one of the "almost" cubs for half the dollars. Fly it every day. If you fly ALOT you will work in and out of where the hobby cub pilot goes. Save the extra money for the avgas budget.

    That being said, a good cub driven by a good cub pilot will be hard to hang with. For the average Joe though, you can save $50k and just use 50' more strip.

    I've owned a few different airplanes and I think the key is fly the piss out of whatever you have. I've always found a place to kill a moose (or whatever I'm looking for) with whatever plane I had at the time.

    Just my .02.
    Last edited by AK-HUNT; 07-24-2010 at 08:00. Reason: spelling

  4. #4

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    Aaa'Yes, I remember new Super Cubs for $18,000.-- (New from the factory). And good used Cubs for $8,500.--

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    I fly a tricked out 7gcbc and light it will go all but where some of the real good cub drivers will go. If allot of gear, i just make another trip, plus as a bigger guy i have allot more room. First learn what your plane will do, where the it edges are, buy lots and lots of gas and practice the type of flying you want to do. Then you need to set it up for type of terrain you will be landing in. I know my 31" bush wheels are allot better in big rocks, but not sharp rocks like my gar aero's or on steep beaches. You could get into one for 30k for a wood wing, older 7gcbc to 55k for one with metal spars, 160 horse, scout gear. There are many bush capable planes, pacer Paul can fly the **** out of his 180 horse pacer. When I started everyone said save for a cub, if that was the case, I still would not own a plane. And for a low time pilot insurance for a 80k cub is more than my payment would of been.

    Terry

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Many years ago, when I thoght I was hot stuff with gravel bar landing,,,my buddy flew his L-21B (military 135hp supercub) and I flew my old beater Ag-Model super-cub out to a remote gravel bar to go fishing...

    While we were standing there talking about what a couple hot stuff bush pilots we thought we were,,, this little 90 horse Champ came putt-putting down the river and made a perfect (and very short), three point landing...
    That guy made us both look like a couple of city boys...

    To make matters worse he was a better fisherman and soon took off in a short distance and headed home with a couple of nice Kings in his baggage compartment.

    It is mostly pilot skill and not the plane.

    Planes.

    My little 90 hp PA-11 Cub does wonders because it is light. You can find them for around $35,000 to $40,000 in good shape.
    I have flown lots of Citabria GCBCs and they are a very good plane. They cruise faster and have better heating.
    While I like 7CGBCs and even the underpowered 7ECAs, I do not care much for the 8GCBC Scouts. They are very heavy, cost too much and have a high stall speed for a bush plane.
    90 Horse Champs are a real treasure and the prices are now going up because lots of folks figured that out.
    I have flown Huskys but they are expensive and their trim system sucks.
    Up-Engined T-crates show up out in the middle of no-where.. They are a neat little plane unless you are a big person.
    I used to have a 160 horse Cessna 150. It was not so good for big rocks, but it would get off the ground in 400 ft with two guys and a full load of fuel. Plus it cruised at 125-130 mph. I sold it with a very high time engine (3700 hrs) a couple years ago for $22,000. The guy I sold it to still flies it once a week.
    One of my local students has an old 1957 C-172 with big tires. With the back seat removed it has lots of cargo room and with a seaplane prop gets off the ground in about 400-600 ft with two guys and gear on board.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    If you have to ask? You aren't ready to use a Cub to it's capabilities. That isn't intended to be a slam. A Cub in the right hands is an incredible airplane. A Cub in average hands is an average airplane. There are lots of average airplanes out there.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Lots of good info. I am not a "Plane guy" or a pilot (yet) but have done a lot of research on it over the past few years. Unfortunately no time for flight training while sitting in the middle east. That said as others have noted there are a number of planes that will get into and out of tight places.

    That wasn't really the question though from the way I read it. From all the research I have done there isn't another (cheaper) plane that has the combo of short field capability with the strength of the super cub. The Citabria w/ metal spars and scout gears is probably the closest but after reading numerous posts and reports it still seems that a "hard" landing on the Cub gear would be a collapsed gear (I think they call that a "crash") in most other planes. So from what I can come up with the answer is that there are plenty of great bush planes out there that will get you in and out of all sorts of places but none do it as well as a super cub w/ a capable driver.

    Or to make it much shorter "No" there is no Cub equal for less money. It is not the name, it's the plane that brings the high dollars.

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    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    That wasn't really the question though from the way I read it. From all the research I have done there isn't another (cheaper) plane that has the combo of short field capability with the strength of the super cub. .
    You are a little more on the money. While I understand that the pilot makes the plane I'm looking for the advice of those with a better understanding of what works. Some of this comes from not knowing the right questions to ask and the sheer number of possibilities. I'm just trying to figure out what has some of the better STOL abilities and has a useful load in the 1000 lbs range that isn't going to hit the 100k mark.

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    If you want a cheap STOL airplane you are going to have to look for something that has been mod'ed heavily and you are going to end up with a targeted A/C good in a small relm of operation or buy a cub. Just about what everybody else has stated, sorry there are no short cuts in aviation, from training to aircraft. As a exsample, we used to have landing contest w/ C-150's when I was instructing in the 70's, you can land one on the numbers of a rwy and stop on it. To do that we were flying 7 days a week doing primary training, trying to make a living. Slight draw back was the t/o was slightly longer. the moral to the story is don't think you can jump into somebody elses game and compete, it may look easy but as the old saying goes there is more than meets the eye. Get something you can afford ,as everyone said and learn to fly it first, then you'll know where you want to go. good luck and don't cut corners if you want to get to be an old pilot.

  11. #11
    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    Maybe I should restate before to many of you die from laughter. While I realize that there really only is a couple of souped up cubs that are capable of this I wanted to cut down on the on the options to planes that do carry the higher payloads and can get off the ground in shorter places.
    Last edited by tboehm; 07-25-2010 at 06:06. Reason: error

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    1000# useful load? Cessna 180. Maybe a Maule, but I wouldn't know what their weights are. A typical Supercub has a useful in the 550# range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    If you want a cheap STOL airplane you are going to have to look for something that has been mod'ed heavily and you are going to end up with a targeted A/C good in a small relm of operation or buy a cub. Just about what everybody else has stated, Get something you can afford ,as everyone said and learn to fly it first, then you'll know where you want to go. good luck and don't cut corners if you want to get to be an old pilot.
    I understand what you are saying but do you have any suggestions. I realize that I have alot to learn about flying but I need to get the best plane that will provide the most options for the $. With todays ecomony I can't afford to buy a c150, fly the wings off, so to say, try to sell it, and then try to buy something better. If I can find something that has good abilities to start with and as my abilities increase the plane will increase with me. Maybe something that I can do some mods to as my abilities increase and monies will allow. I want to buy once... Not get something and out grow and then wish. Another way to put it is, I dont want to spend 50K on something and then realize that if I would have spent 65k I would be in a whole new ball park of abilities...and those are not exact figures but I just trying to make illustrate the point.

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    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    1000# useful load? Cessna 180. Maybe a Maule, but I wouldn't know what their weights are. A typical Supercub has a useful in the 550# range.
    Here is an example of what I was refering to
    http://www.cubcrafters.com/topcub/specs

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    A Top Cub will run you $200K. And it isn't a Supercub in the eyes of the FAA, so Supercub modifications and replacement parts are not automatically applicable.

    Your desire to find the ideal airplane on your first try is a discussion every first-time owner has had. The perfect plane doesn't exist for me because my needs and uses change. My 180 was not my first plane but is as close to perfect as I've found, but I don't even want to think how much money I've spent making mods along the way. I would have been money ahead to have bought a 185 right from the beginning, but I wasn't qualified to use a 185 in the beginning.

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    but I need to get the best plane that will provide the most options for the $
    If this is true, DO NOT buy a supercub! A cub is the OPPOSITE of this.

    I want to buy once...
    You may want to think this over a bit. The best advice I think I've heard given is to buy a cheaper plane that will get you out there. THEN, you will really know what you want. Right now, its just a guess. That's the case for most guys (me when I bought my first).

    You may even figure out flying 80 in a cub sucks when you can fly 160 in a Cessna 180/185 and land at most of the places you went in the cub anyway. Then when you want to go somewhere really nasty to sheep hunt, pay someone else to tear up their airplane.

    It honestly sounds like you are set on a cub, anyway. Just buy one if that's the case. They are fun. If you don't have $75k (or 200k if you really want the 1000# useful) you will have to settle.

    Good luck in either case. Talk to a few high time bush guys and don't believe 50 percent of internet lore. YOU choose which 50 percent

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    Sounds like what you really want is a Beaver, easy 1000 plus pound payload and STOL capability. But your looking at about $450,000. There is no one perfect plane for everything like Mr Pid and ak-hunt has stated. And if you put a 1000 pounds is a cub, its not going to getting off that short, even if you could do it legally. Reason the cubs perform so good, is its light weight, with good big wings. And for Lujon, not sure what Strength your talking about, because thier fuselages are actually weeker and thier landing gear really are not any stronger, most hard worked cub use heavy duty gear with safety cables and upgraded axles for a reason. I'm currently in the beginning process of building a cub for my daughter(have 6 years), but we have to finish straightening and repairing 3 other cub fuselages first. Don't get me wrong nothing is going to beat a stock light weight cub with a great light weight driver, ask Paul Claus who kicks butt in his almost stock 1050 pound cub at Valdez. But everything in aviation is a tradeoff and most mod's add weight and detract from performance, like that heavy electrical system for example. Buy what you can afford and fly it or keep dreaming about flying.

    Terry

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    Did some research on those expensive and heavier topcubs, here are some numbers from there web site.

    TOP CUB PERFORMANCE DATA

    Takeoff Distance
    @ 1600 lbs - 270 ft
    @ 2000 lbs - 420 ft
    @ 2300 lbs - 580 ft
    (Distances based on Cruise Prop)


    Landing Distance
    @ 1600 lbs - 400 ft
    @ 2000 lbs - 480 ft
    @ 2300 lbs - 580 ft


    Stall Speed
    @ 2300 lbs - 48 mph

    A good 180, 185, or 206 driver with a good airplane can get in and out with a bigger load in 580 feet, and make it there a hell of allot faster. Cubs are meant to be kept light and get in and out Short!

    Terry

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    here's a deal, my pacer for 19,000, ready to fly in annual. You learn in a Pacer and you can fly any tail wheel. Yes it is doable, I had 1+40 mins of C-180 and a sign off when I got the pacer and learned it as I went. They don't really stall, rather mush, will carry 850 lbs, land in 3-400' , T/O at gross is 1000', light 500'. Go bum a ride in a cub and see if the pilot will take you into a 400' strip, then after you see it first hand you decide if your ready for that or a nice gravel rwy 12-1300' long in western AK. There are lots of places you can go that are a blast. check Utube- top fun , pacer flying in NZ. This guy is good

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    1. Go with floats. There are a hell of a lot more lakes up here than land-able gravel bars.

    That opens up the door to things like a Aeronca Sedan, and modified Stenson or maybe an affordable C-180.

    I have two clients who both just bought planes in the $90,000 range.

    One guy bought a Scout with constant speed prop, big tires, VGs, a belly tank and all sorts of other heavy electronic junk. The tail wheel is so heavy it takes two people to lift the tail when the plane is empty.
    It lands like a wheelbarrow full of wet gravel. My $35,000 90 hp Cub can fly circles around it in every category except cruise speed.


    On the other hand.... Another client waited until the moment was right and bought and very, very, very, nice 1959 C-180. It is light weight and it has a nice set of EDO-2870 floats. That plane is a dream to fly on floats and cruises along at a respectable airspeed.

    So for 90K one guy got a headache plane that is busy blowing tail-wheel tires and warping tail springs, while the other guy is flying around from one lake to the next with room to spare....


    Remember that owning and actually flying an underpowered yet affordable C-150, C-140, T-craft, PACER or Luscombe,,,
    ,,is always way better than sitting in front of your computer talking BS about the expensive plane you wish you had.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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