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Thread: Flyfishing pike/reds

  1. #1

    Default Flyfishing pike/reds

    Hi folks, I've never tied flies before, but think maybe its a good hobby to get flies stocked up for summer Kenai sockeyes & interior pike. Can you guys recommend flies/patterns that would be easy for someone to tie (me) who has never done it? I'm thinking that a fly tying kit from Cabela's would be good to get, but want to keep it basic and not spend a fortune on a "deluxe" kit if that's not what I need. I have no idea what size hooks, etc. for reds & pike (we usually do a fly in trip to Alexander lake for pike in july, VERY weedy so weedless bunny leeches (I don't think that's the correct terminology) or whatever you guys recommend would be helpful.) I may get bit by the flyfishing bug if I get into this, but really want to catch fish on a flyrod I got last year and haven't even rigged it yet.
    I've heard it said that tying flies for kenai reds is a waste of time, just by them at 3 for a buck cause reds don't care what you got, just get something in front of them. My friend who lives on the kenai just uses red kamagatsu hooks and a very small amount of orange yarn and we've caught loads of fish on those, just looking for others' opinions!
    Thanks,
    Jim

  2. #2
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default WOW Open package

    Big Jim,

    I know you have stated that you are thinking of getting int o Fly Tying, but brother be careful what you wish. Starts off good enough then becomes YIKES as time goes on.

    Couple of recommendations. Spend decent money on decent equipment. I have nothing against Cabela's however depending on your budget look another place. Good Bobbin Double Flare ceramic is the only way to go "Not to Long" either. Decent vise look to Griffinn Ent they have starter kits for about 70-80 bucks that has all you need. Check out the link.

    http://www.griffinenterprisesinc.com/

    Shoot them an email and find your local store!!!!!!!!! Skip the Cabela's crap made across the pond it will not last as long and the vise jaws tend to wear faster.

    That being said Bunny Leech or as the old name Water Pup works great for Pike in various colors. You can also tie a needle fly like they use in the salt for tarpon with ease.

    I suggest you do it for the hobby and not as a money saver because brother one thing will lend to another and it does get spendy.

    Concserning Russian River flies easy 1 -2 step fly that you can turn out 3 Dz per hour. Gammy hooks are good but with a little sharpening you can go with the Mustads at 1/4 of the cost.

    Larry Dahlberg's Diver is a great Pike Fly but requires the spnning of hair which can be tricky. Check out this Link

    http://www.flyfishersrepublic.com/pa...ahlberg-diver/

    Ok I know I am rambling.

    Bottom Line spend a little more on the vise and tools and you will be a happy camper. You do not need a Whip Finisher, or half the crap they sell in most cheap kits. Bodkin, Bobbin, Vise, and a good pair of snips will do you just fine.

    Hope some of the info helps you make a choice. Shoot me a P.M. if you wish additional information.

    Blue Moose

  3. #3
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    Default

    the first pike I caught was on the clouser minnow it is a easy fly to tie and one of the greatest. its just eyes and two types of bucktail (I prefer nautral over synthetic) I would try grey over white and chartruse(bright green) over white those have been my two best patterns
    http://www.sefly.com/clouser_deep_minnows.htm

  4. #4

    Default

    leach patterns work great for pike. I like a big 5" black leach stripped in slowly near the top of the water column. Learn to toie things like wolly buggers and leaches before you try more advanced things.

  5. #5
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default You are correct Sir

    Quote Originally Posted by AKducks View Post
    the first pike I caught was on the clouser minnow it is a easy fly to tie and one of the greatest. its just eyes and two types of bucktail (I prefer nautral over synthetic) I would try grey over white and chartruse(bright green) over white those have been my two best patterns
    http://www.sefly.com/clouser_deep_minnows.htm
    The Clouser is one of the most effective flies in the world for almost all game fish to include Salt and fresh water. When it comes down to it a Russian River / Coho Fly with eyes! Wish it would have popped into my head.

    Bob clouser developed it for Small Mouth back in PA on the Delaware water shed! Excellent Fly and durable to boot!

    Tight Lines and best wishes! Great thought!

  6. #6
    Member jrt34's Avatar
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    Default Fly Fishing Resource

    Jim,

    I'm a pretty recent convert to the sport as well (about 4 yrs) and I have found that pretty much anything ever written by Anthony J. Route is well worth the read. He has at least two books out, (readily available at any sporting goods store), that deal specifically with fly fishing various Alaskan species. His books will reccomend fly's, size, color and fishing techniques by individual fish species.

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    Default Top Shelf?

    I would have to disagree with BlueMoose on worrying about vise quality, especially if you are planning on tying big fluffy things. I've only been tying for a few years, but for what I do (big bunny leeches, boogers, fleshflies) I use a cheapie (15 bucks on clearance?) I bought at Sportsman's and it does all I need. As far as worrying about things wearing out.....wait until the bug bites you...then go top shelf. For Pike in Bristol Bay I use almost exclusively large black articulated leeches. Put in a little white and flashabou along with a medium set of barbells. I use tyable steel wire for the articulated part and glue the bijeezes out of these things or they will simply not last. Another thing I've learned is not to use a normal leader to attach to your tippet and ultimately your fly. I use 4-6 feet tops of 15 to 20 pound maxima (color unimportant) tied with a palomar to a barrel swivel. Then using another palomar I tie a 12 to 15 inch length of tyable steel wire (30 pound) and then another palomar to your bunny. The net effect of this is startling. It makes your leader and tipet and fly act just like you have no steel involved at all. With a normal leader. you get a goofy hinging action due to the swivel that makes a weighted fly fall down quickly instead of flutter slowly and nearly suspend right in front of a following pike's face..which makes all the difference on a nosey pike that isn't quite ready to smack anything that moves. This is especially important in high pressure areas and during cold water (spring) but will improve your odds year round. I've found that most hits come either on the stop or on the first snap of the next strip. I use magnum zonkers or buy a hide and cut your own, use stout hooks (I don't worry about name brands as these flies usually have a short shelf life due to sharp teeth. It also doesn't take that large of a fly to get em goin. I tie mine around 4 to max 5 inches long....anything more than that is a great way to develop arthritis in your casting shoulder. And be careful of putting too much weight at the head....it can have deleterious effects on your blank when it comes whizzing past your head and knicks, or straight up breaks your rod, plus, it's a pain to cast. The Clouser patterns also work well, but big black articulated leeches have really put me on some fun.

  8. #8
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Agree to Disagree on the vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    I would have to disagree with BlueMoose on worrying about vise quality, especially if you are planning on tying big fluffy things. I've only been tying for a few years, but for what I do (big bunny leeches, boogers, fleshflies) I use a cheapie (15 bucks on clearance?) I bought at Sportsman's and it does all I need. As far as worrying about things wearing out.....wait until the bug bites you...then go top shelf. For Pike in Bristol Bay I use almost exclusively large black articulated leeches. Put in a little white and flashabou along with a medium set of barbells. I use tyable steel wire for the articulated part and glue the bijeezes out of these things or they will simply not last. Another thing I've learned is not to use a normal leader to attach to your tippet and ultimately your fly. I use 4-6 feet tops of 15 to 20 pound maxima (color unimportant) tied with a palomar to a barrel swivel. Then using another palomar I tie a 12 to 15 inch length of tyable steel wire (30 pound) and then another palomar to your bunny. The net effect of this is startling. It makes your leader and tipet and fly act just like you have no steel involved at all. With a normal leader. you get a goofy hinging action due to the swivel that makes a weighted fly fall down quickly instead of flutter slowly and nearly suspend right in front of a following pike's face..which makes all the difference on a nosey pike that isn't quite ready to smack anything that moves. This is especially important in high pressure areas and during cold water (spring) but will improve your odds year round. I've found that most hits come either on the stop or on the first snap of the next strip. I use magnum zonkers or buy a hide and cut your own, use stout hooks (I don't worry about name brands as these flies usually have a short shelf life due to sharp teeth. It also doesn't take that large of a fly to get em goin. I tie mine around 4 to max 5 inches long....anything more than that is a great way to develop arthritis in your casting shoulder. And be careful of putting too much weight at the head....it can have deleterious effects on your blank when it comes whizzing past your head and knicks, or straight up breaks your rod, plus, it's a pain to cast. The Clouser patterns also work well, but big black articulated leeches have really put me on some fun.
    Catch It sorry partner have to agree to disagree. The most important part of fly tying is your tools and although I am extremely happy for you and your choice of vises it and it alone is the most important aspect of tying a fly when starting out and for that fact as long as your tying. The Kit I suggested Jim look at comes with a vise, bobbin, Hair Stacker and pliers which retails for about $60.00 max if you find it on sale about $48.00 which is an outstanding price on quality product manufacture in the USA. That being said there are ample vises out there duplicateing the original Thompson A vise however they are not the same quality nor do they have the capability that a quality vise would have to inlcude adjustment of hook sizes. Durable and ease of use are also an important factors while choosing a vise and brother after 25 years of teaching fly tying, commercial tying, and selling fly tying supplies I have to state I just can not agree with the lesser of choices when it comes down to brass tacks. I guess the bottom line is you do get what you pay for and if a person is satisfied with their choice then the choice was good.

    P.S.

    Excellent idea on the Pike Set Up! You should spread the word to Fish Alaska Mag.

    Tight Lines and Best Wishes

    Blue Moose

  9. #9

    Default

    I have to admit I dont agree with Moose very often but as a commericial fly tier I would have to agree, tools and quality of materials is what makes or breaks you as a fly tyer.

    Tools....... it's obvious you dont need much, however a GOOD vise is a must if you plan on doing this at all. I just gave away a vise (Superior 2A vise 59 bucks new) to a friend of mine along with a cabelas fly tying kit (really junk, the tying kit, but I couldnt convince him otherwise).

    The vise is a great vise for the price!!!! A vise has one goal, to hold a hook, simple put, if it cannot do it, it's junk, there is no if ands or buts behind it. The jaws will wear, some faster then others (or break like my old regal did after doing a couple hundred dozen flies on it). if the hook moves in the vise, its either not adjust properly or a junk vise (typical of your cheap thompsons 15 buck vises) Niether of us are advocating you spend 3 or 400 bucks on a quality dynaking or renzetti, however this low-mid range vise will server you EXTREMELY well!!!!


    Tools, simple, a hair stacker, a quality bobbin (I prefer medium ceramic), whip finisher (specifically the materelli rotary type whip finisher), hackle pliers (must have) and a hair stacker if you do get into spinning hair which is quite easy really, is all you need to BUY, you can make a bodkin with a needle and wine bottle cork easy enough. Hackle pliers will save you many flies over time. Break your thread, grab it quick, attach the hackle pliers to keep things from coming apart, simple way to save a fly. You dont need the whipfinisher if you plan on half hitching, however I can tie just as fast with a whip finisher as you can tie a couple half hitches and I believe it's a better knot, just my personal opinion, but most people who half hitch also glue there knots.

    The only fly I would add to the list others have placed would be a deciever.

    The one thing about pike however is they tend to mangle rather quickly your flies. A dahlberg diver is a really good pike fly, dont expect it to last long!!!! , bring some drying powder for the deceiver or any spun flies and you can go as far as to coat the bottoms with some sealer, helps keep them from sucking up water, though for pike flies that might be a waste as again they wont last long. Try a deciever with all synthetics.

    Also add on a mouse pattern. Can use a wine cork for the boddy and wrap that with some rabbit strips, add a stick on eye in the front and somecute lil bitty whiskers from the moose you shot last year or the center portion (brown area) on a bucktail. That or you can take the 30 minutes and just spin a m ouse out of deer hair, and trim it. (if you cant tell I like spinning hair, other then the mess that goes with trimming it lol).

    Dont , DO NOT, overlook PINK. Dunno what it is about pink, but steelhead and pike LOVE it!!! Try a long 6-10" two stripped bunny fly, nothing fancy, tie it on at the eye, one strip on top, one on bottom, glue both strips to the hook (drive the lower strip through the hook).


    You can add weedgaurds to ANYTHING! Though I dont like them. Tie a heavy piece of mono on the top of the shank first before tying the fly, wrap it part way down the bend, tie off and glue. Run the other end up through the eye of the hook and back along the top. Wrap over both the top and bottom back a ways, tie off and super glue (zap a gap same diff) the hole kitten kabodle. Tie up a bunch of these to start before you go into cranking mode will help you save time.

    You also DO NOT need leaders of steel. I prefer to pike fish with heavy flurocarbon 30-40lbs is perfect (depends on the fly and situation though, some smaller hooks you cannot use these large diameter lines, or hooks with weedguards too). Keep your leaders short, only a couple of feet and check them often (or after every fish!). If you notice the pike are taking things deeply you might want to throw on steel, however more often then not you'll be just fine without it. If you do go with the plastic coated steel wires, use the haywire twist for you knot. I dont like it and havent found the need to use it yet.

    Lastly stay AWAY from fly tying kits!!! Tools is one thing, materials is another. Most materials kits have a little of this, a little of that, but not really enough to do anything with! You'll add quite a bit over time, some of it's cheap, some ofi t's awfuly dog gone spendy! You're better off walkign into a store, find a few flies, take them to someone, and get the recipe (or look online) go in and buy the materials for those flies specifically. Start with a fly that takes 1 step first (like a illiamna pinky), then move onto a two step fly like a griffths gant, then 3, then 4 then 5 etc et cetc. You need to teach your hands, dont try to teach the materials. You'd think you hvae control over your hands, till you try and tie flies LOL! The idea is to build off yoru last fly and move on up till you're tying spey's, dee's, or full dressed goodies for the eye. Qaulity materials will make you look like an expert tier, once you learn to manipulate your hands to do the things you want them too! It's awfully rare these kits have quality anything in them, (including some of the tool kits, the scissors bobbins, stackers, and hackle pliers usually leave something to be desired, and do yourself a favor if you get a whip finisher, get the materalli to start with, it's cheap and simple to use, if ya need a hand I'll help ya out!)

  10. #10
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TradBow View Post
    I have to admit I dont agree with Moose very often but as a commericial fly tier I would have to agree, tools and quality of materials is what makes or breaks you as a fly tyer.

    Tools....... it's obvious you dont need much, however a GOOD vise is a must if you plan on doing this at all. I just gave away a vise (Superior 2A vise 59 bucks new) to a friend of mine along with a cabelas fly tying kit (really junk, the tying kit, but I couldnt convince him otherwise).

    The vise is a great vise for the price!!!! A vise has one goal, to hold a hook, simple put, if it cannot do it, it's junk, there is no if ands or buts behind it. The jaws will wear, some faster then others (or break like my old regal did after doing a couple hundred dozen flies on it). if the hook moves in the vise, its either not adjust properly or a junk vise (typical of your cheap thompsons 15 buck vises) Niether of us are advocating you spend 3 or 400 bucks on a quality dynaking or renzetti, however this low-mid range vise will server you EXTREMELY well!!!!


    Tools, simple, a hair stacker, a quality bobbin (I prefer medium ceramic), whip finisher (specifically the materelli rotary type whip finisher), hackle pliers (must have) and a hair stacker if you do get into spinning hair which is quite easy really, is all you need to BUY, you can make a bodkin with a needle and wine bottle cork easy enough. Hackle pliers will save you many flies over time. Break your thread, grab it quick, attach the hackle pliers to keep things from coming apart, simple way to save a fly. You dont need the whipfinisher if you plan on half hitching, however I can tie just as fast with a whip finisher as you can tie a couple half hitches and I believe it's a better knot, just my personal opinion, but most people who half hitch also glue there knots.

    The only fly I would add to the list others have placed would be a deciever.

    The one thing about pike however is they tend to mangle rather quickly your flies. A dahlberg diver is a really good pike fly, dont expect it to last long!!!! , bring some drying powder for the deceiver or any spun flies and you can go as far as to coat the bottoms with some sealer, helps keep them from sucking up water, though for pike flies that might be a waste as again they wont last long. Try a deciever with all synthetics.

    Also add on a mouse pattern. Can use a wine cork for the boddy and wrap that with some rabbit strips, add a stick on eye in the front and somecute lil bitty whiskers from the moose you shot last year or the center portion (brown area) on a bucktail. That or you can take the 30 minutes and just spin a m ouse out of deer hair, and trim it. (if you cant tell I like spinning hair, other then the mess that goes with trimming it lol).

    Dont , DO NOT, overlook PINK. Dunno what it is about pink, but steelhead and pike LOVE it!!! Try a long 6-10" two stripped bunny fly, nothing fancy, tie it on at the eye, one strip on top, one on bottom, glue both strips to the hook (drive the lower strip through the hook).


    You can add weedgaurds to ANYTHING! Though I dont like them. Tie a heavy piece of mono on the top of the shank first before tying the fly, wrap it part way down the bend, tie off and glue. Run the other end up through the eye of the hook and back along the top. Wrap over both the top and bottom back a ways, tie off and super glue (zap a gap same diff) the hole kitten kabodle. Tie up a bunch of these to start before you go into cranking mode will help you save time.

    You also DO NOT need leaders of steel. I prefer to pike fish with heavy flurocarbon 30-40lbs is perfect (depends on the fly and situation though, some smaller hooks you cannot use these large diameter lines, or hooks with weedguards too). Keep your leaders short, only a couple of feet and check them often (or after every fish!). If you notice the pike are taking things deeply you might want to throw on steel, however more often then not you'll be just fine without it. If you do go with the plastic coated steel wires, use the haywire twist for you knot. I dont like it and havent found the need to use it yet.

    Lastly stay AWAY from fly tying kits!!! Tools is one thing, materials is another. Most materials kits have a little of this, a little of that, but not really enough to do anything with! You'll add quite a bit over time, some of it's cheap, some ofi t's awfuly dog gone spendy! You're better off walkign into a store, find a few flies, take them to someone, and get the recipe (or look online) go in and buy the materials for those flies specifically. Start with a fly that takes 1 step first (like a illiamna pinky), then move onto a two step fly like a griffths gant, then 3, then 4 then 5 etc et cetc. You need to teach your hands, dont try to teach the materials. You'd think you hvae control over your hands, till you try and tie flies LOL! The idea is to build off yoru last fly and move on up till you're tying spey's, dee's, or full dressed goodies for the eye. Qaulity materials will make you look like an expert tier, once you learn to manipulate your hands to do the things you want them too! It's awfully rare these kits have quality anything in them, (including some of the tool kits, the scissors bobbins, stackers, and hackle pliers usually leave something to be desired, and do yourself a favor if you get a whip finisher, get the materalli to start with, it's cheap and simple to use, if ya need a hand I'll help ya out!)
    Hey were agree on Oar Set up and AIRE Cats. :-) LOL Stay good!

  11. #11

    Default

    hey now, I did say not much, didnt say I didnt agree on EVERYTHING lmao!!!

    Can't believe it but in the needed tools I forgot to add scissors. Get a non serrated type so you can sharpen them!!! Serrated are nice however are pretty much unsharpenable. I've called and emailed the company with no response! AT 20 bucks a pair I had to change. Ended upw ith a pair of DR Slicks. Scary sharp and sharpenable!!!

    boy must have been auto pilot on that last post, shew messed a lot of it up, hope ya get the idea.

    The drying powder was for the dahlberg not the deceiver, or any other hair flies lmao.

  12. #12

    Default

    Crap, this fly fishing/tying thing sounds nuts! Alright, since Cabela's is definitey getting the down nod from you guys, I'll stay away from their kits & tools; how is there materials for making flies? I live in Hawaii, (we have a place in Sterling) so mailing away for stuff is a must. I'll be up there (AK) approx. July 14-Aug. 4th for reds, buts, pike (maybe throw in a few days to Kodiak, but dependent on the Kenai reds). Where could I go on the Peninsula to see or buy some flies for pike? Maybe I could get a crash course and a few tips from somebody in person; I know that a crash course is next to useless, but just to get a visual understanding of what you guys are talking about! Maybe somebody could help me set up my fly rod. Maybe I should get another spool for it? It may have come with an extra, but I can't remember. I'd really like to catch some reds with it, but also want to use it on a day trip to Alexander.
    Okay, so who can I order the tools from without spending a fortune?
    Thanks for all the help guys; about 7 yrs ago, I caught a king in Deep Creek on a friends fly rod; and caught some reds on the Russian with the same flyrod later on, how awesome to catch fish on a fly rod; you can feel everything and it doesn't fatigue you to death!
    Jim

  13. #13

    Default

    the materials are fine, most kits stink! usually left overs or lesser grade materials and there's usually (not always some kits are actually decent), set up to tie any one fly. You get a bunch of "stuff" but not what you need.

    If you can find a kit that is set up to tie specific flies materials wise it wouldnt be a bad idea. Those are however far and few between imho. Or if you can have a kit made to do this, that'd be the best world to be in.

    You can buy the tools from cabelas, just stay away from KITS!!! THere are not many tools you need to start out with and even over time you wont gain much more for tools, I listed the basic's above.

    Look up Fly anglers online for pike flys and how to tie them. Or look in any catalog for pike flys, then google the recipe, some sites are much better then others but there is TONS of info out there. Lots of good how to articles on tying. FAOL is probably the biggest and most complete but there are many others.

    Have fun!

  14. #14

    Default

    Big Jim,
    Another thing to consider is looking into Alaska Flyfishers. They are a local group that offers fly tying clinics. If memory serves me correctly they offer a fly tying lesson when you join. There are several local experts that you can draw knowledge from. The biggest thing is to decide how you want to start agnd get going with it. Personally I have hundreds of dollars in supplies now, but when I get in the mood to tie up some flys I have what I need. Bottom line is that its lots of fun and good way to kill a winter night in Alaska.

  15. #15
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Jim Check your P.M

    Can't do any better than hooking you up. I am a sucker for helping people get started! Seize the Day! Not all things in life are free so if it happens take advantage of the situation.

    Tight Lines and Best Wishes!

    Blue Moose!

  16. #16
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    Wink Is it spring yet, too much talk

    [quote]
    You also DO NOT need leaders of steel. I prefer to pike fish with heavy flurocarbon 30-40lbs is perfect (depends on the fly and situation though, some smaller hooks you cannot use these large diameter lines, or hooks with weedguards too). Keep your leaders short, only a couple of feet and check them often (or after every fish!). If you notice the pike are taking things deeply you might want to throw on steel, however more often then not you'll be just fine without it. If you do go with the plastic coated steel wires, use the haywire twist for you knot. I dont like it and havent found the need to use it yet.

    /QUOTE]

    Fly Pike.jpg

    I think I'll stick with steel leaders, losing something like this due to a deep hook up just might make me cry and even a hammer handle can snap most mono's, but I'll definitely try the knot you suggested for steel.

    But as far as the vise discussion goes, If you guys are advocating a 40 to 60 dollar vise...this is hardly extreme, I would agree, but in all reality, if a vise wears "(or break like my old regal did after doing a couple hundred dozen flies on it). " Sheesh, that's a lot of flies, I'm just sayin that if you want to get started on big fluffy stuff on big hooks...it may be nice to drive a Caddy, but a Dodge will get you there....if you love it, then you can justify one of the high dollar vises and go nuts with the options that flytying offers.

  17. #17

    Default

    Geez Catch It that's a beauty! How big was it? Did you catch it on a fly? (I saw the spin gear next to you in the boat.) I caught a 38" last year by pure accident (I had a piece of herring with a bobber out, moved the boat, forgot about that rod, caught a glimpse of it going over the side at the last second, resulted in 38" pike----absoulutely no skill or anything done on my part!)
    Can anyone recommend a good source for a replica mount? I've got the length of that pike and some pictures of it, so I think that's what's needed?
    Thanks,
    Jim

  18. #18
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    Default

    the cabelas tools are ok I still use a ton of mine but their vices are bad, spend the money and get a good vice. I saved up for like 4 months when I was 12 to buy a renzetti trveler which is AWESOME I don't think I will ever buy another vice. And cabelas bucktail and deerhair grabbags are good values, also they have pretty good deals on hooks. If you are in anchorage check out the AFF fly tying clinics I thin the first saturday of every month or something they are a ton of fun
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  19. #19

    Default

    AkPWD, thanks for the tips! I saw some pike flies online in Cabelas'; still trying to burn up those gift certificates! I saw some flies they put together in a package/box from a company call Umpqua; would those be any good in a very weedy place (Alexander lake)? I couldn't tell from the pics, but it didn't look like there were any weed guards on those flies; if I need to narrow down pike flies to 5 or so, what would be on the list for you guys; I may need to buy these; maybe I can get them from a fly shop on the peninsula or in Anchorage? Also, I've caught rainbows just prior to red fishing on the Kenai at our friends place in Sterling on just a small hook, piece of shrimp, split shot; if I want to try that on a fly rod, can it be done? With a spinner, I just kinda gently lob/cast that setup up stream and let it bounce a little on the bottom, but the shrimp on the hook wants to come off easily if you cast too hard, not sure how to do that with a fly rod??
    Thanks guys,
    Jim

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    Smile

    You'll know your completely fly tying sick when you driving and you see road kill and your pulling over to see if there is any good hide left for flys.

    I knew I had lost it when I was happy to find a fresh dead Blue Jay.

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