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Thread: I have a question about bear baiting and hunting black bear with dogs....

  1. #1

    Default I have a question about bear baiting and hunting black bear with dogs....

    Ok, I use to raise about 20 treeing walkers back home, running them on hog and coons, different litters....Now, I have a village I live in that has 35 miles of good road to no where that has lots of black bear on it. I'd like to get back into hunting dogs, so, thought I'd ask about good bear dogs for this in central Ak where it gets cold. I could have some type of heat in a protected dog run/house under the house. What are other dog owners doing? Can the walkers make it up here or is there something better suited to the cold that people are using on black bear? It would be nice to run them in the spring when the bears are near coming out of hibernation. What is the minimum number of dogs being used to run a bear?

    Lastly, I'm setting up my first black bear stands, how far away should I be, legally, to turn out the dogs?
    Scotty in the AK bush

  2. #2
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    Before you get too far into this plan, please contact the nearest Fish and Game office and get the information concernig the permit you will need. Any black bear hunting with dogs requires the permit. Personally, i don't know anyone that uses dogs for bear up here but I'm sure they are out there. I cannot find any restriction on how far you need to be from a bait statiion to release dogs. When to apply for the permit, that would be an excellent question. Oh, and hope the dogs don't get on a grizzly/brown bear.

  3. #3

    Default yeap gonna call today....

    yeah, i'll call today...

    and we don't have many griz's near me, a few, but where we hunt it's more black bear...but, thought i might train with a shock collar and some brown bear pee...then use the black bear pee to reward....then if they do get on a griz, i can shock them....but hoping to find someone that has already blazed this trail!
    Scotty in the AK bush

  4. #4

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    Good luck getting a griz or a black bear to hold still long enough to get a pee sample...

  5. #5

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    you got a point Ak Sportsman, last time I put up a scent dripper up on a tree with bear/sow-in-heat pee, i got a little on me and walking back to the truck, i had a boar get on me! It was kinda awkward, thought I was going to get eaten, but, guess he had other intentions...just joking....

    You know, I was buying some bear pee over the phone and I asked the guy about how they got the boar urine, he said that he had a pet bear and they just put then in a cattle holding pen to feed them and kept them there for a time till they pee'd...for real...

    Just another side note, for real also, I saw a video about a guy that collected wild boar urine and also collected/sold his award winning domesticated pig sperm...they had a dummie sow setup with a collection bag you know where, and first put sow-n-heat urine on the dummie and the boar was kinda interested in mating, but then they put boar sperm in with the sow n heat urine, geeez, that boar TORE up that sow dummie mating with it, he was red hot mad that another boar had beat him to the punch!...

    I've read where coon hunters have used the deer pee and shock collars to break their dogs off deer and the would use the coon pee to reward....so, just wondered if anyone ever used the brown bear pee to break dogs....and black bear pee to reward...
    Scotty in the AK bush

  6. #6
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Hey Scotty...

    Scotty, below is what the permit will look like and what it will stipulate. That's from an older one of mine. Some of the area bios aren't even aware of this and may have to call Juneau to get you a permit. It will likely be for only one GMU that you stipulate you want to run the dogs in. Permit varies on how many dogs can be used, typically up to two. State doesn't want large packs of dogs similar to what you are used to in the states to be used. You can tree a blackie with one dog pretty easily. Grizz won't tree btw <grin>.

    One forum member here is using a terrier breed like they use in Russia...plenty of other breeds can be trained. And shorthair breeds can be kept inside or heated enclosures in winter and you can use them fine too. I have mongrel bush sled dogs out here.

    Not sure on distance from bait stations as far as running dogs, but since it's a mile from a permanent dwelling it could be the same from known bait stations.

    Here's the statute link: http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akst...section068.htm


    Mark Richards...
    is hereby authorized under 5AAC 92.085 (5) to hunt black bears with dogs as provided in 5 AAC 92.068 under the following conditions:

    1)You must possess a current hunting license;
    2)You must carry this permit while hunting black bears with dogs;
    3)This permit is valid only for Game Management Unit 25 during the period April 1-October 31 2008;
    4) This permit is nontransferable and the permittee must be present when dogs are used;
    5) Once a bear is treed, cornered, or otherwise restrained, it must be either harvested or allowed to go free with dogs leashed and without pursuit;
    6) Dogs may not be released to hunt bears within one mile of an occupied dwelling; and
    7) This permit is void if the permittee violates any of these permits conditions or any provisions of game regulations while hunting black bears with dogs.

    I, _______________________have read, understood, and agree to the conditions of this permit.

    ________________________________ ________________
    Permittee Date

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    Member AlaskaTrueAdventure's Avatar
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    Scanning through this short thread makes me glad to be a spot & stalk and-or run & gun bear-hunter/guide-outfitter.
    JSSB.....Good luck with your black bear and brown/griz bear pee-piss-urine-wiz whatever.
    Sincerely,
    Dennis

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    I currently live in Utah and am probably moving to the anchorage area. I have had hounds for 16 years and I am contemplating whether or not to bring hounds up there. I will be bringing one dog for sure and am thinking of going with either terriers or lurchers to run with my old dog. Those kinds of dogs would have a tendency to not run as far as hounds. The downside to the terrier is that they would probably be good wolf bait where the lurchers would maybe at least stand a chance due to their size and speed. Lurchers can be quite aggressive and may have to be basically expendable. I would be most likely living in the Palmer or wasilla area and would be more than willing to do some experimenting with hounds and/or hound crosses. I have found little information about dog hunting up there.

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    I just recently picked up a Bluetick Coonhound from South Carolina. She is a pup, dont plan on bear hunting her but am going to train her to scent trails for bear hunting(that thick brush is a B..... to track a downed bear). Would love to bear hunt her but not up here, unless I knew there were only blackies in the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blasterak View Post
    I just recently picked up a Bluetick Coonhound from South Carolina. She is a pup, dont plan on bear hunting her but am going to train her to scent trails for bear hunting(that thick brush is a B..... to track a downed bear). Would love to bear hunt her but not up here, unless I knew there were only blackies in the area.
    Are you going to teach her to blood trail, then? I think a hound would struggle with staying with a specific bear if trailing bear scent. The dogs can tell the difference between individual animals but would require intensive training. Which leads me to point #2. I don't think it would be hard to break dogs off of grizzlies and have them only run blackies. I am more worried about wolves than grizzlies. Also, there are people in BC who for sure run grizzlies with hounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearkiller View Post
    Are you going to teach her to blood trail, then? I think a hound would struggle with staying with a specific bear if trailing bear scent. The dogs can tell the difference between individual animals but would require intensive training. Which leads me to point #2. I don't think it would be hard to break dogs off of grizzlies and have them only run blackies. I am more worried about wolves than grizzlies. Also, there are people in BC who for sure run grizzlies with hounds.
    Yeah, I meant to say teach her to blood trail. I would like to get her on bear up here, i'll definitely look into it. I imagine you could get them to get off a grizzly with some training. Another thing is where I bait it is 90% or better black bear, never seen a grizzly when I was there only a few on trailcam(they dont stick around though). I was thinking that'd be a good area to get her on some blackies. I'd rather attempt that with someone who has experience, maybe a few more hounds and of course you have to get that hound permit as well.

  12. #12

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    I have talked to a few people that use Plott hounds in Maine on black bears. I don't know a whole lot about running dogs but have heard good things about the Plott hounds.

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    You'd have the same problem with plotts as other hounds. Getting WAY out of pocket and getting killed by wolves before you could get to them. The dogs I have now will take OLD tracks and in Alaska that wouldn't be good. Are there any places that have bears and not very many, if any, wolves? I am going to be bringing one hound at least. Because she is older and a one man dog. She doesn't hunt well for other people. The rest of my dogs are going to be sold before I move. After I get there I am going to have a lurcher or 2 shipped up and give it a whirl. A lurcher is a scent hound sight hound cross. They are fast and aggressive but don't have the stamina. If it's not caught in an hour or so they'll come back. That's probably the best solution. Blaster, even if you don't want to run your dog on bears you are more than welcome to try the dog hunting with me. I'm not sure what a nonresident has to do to hunt black bear but if it's just money, I'll be doing it. If I have to wait for residency my old dog may be retired by then and it may be a more difficult experiment. With the new GPS collars for dogs, I have 6, I think Alaska will be more practical to hunt with dogs. There is no guessing where the dogs are.

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    Drahthaar might be something to look into. They are a very versatile breed and have a prey drive that is fantastic. They are smart too. They can be used to hunt almost anything from what I understand. I know they use them on wild boars in Europe, birds in the dakotas and coyote in the midwest. They have a thick oily coat and can handle long days in cold wet weather. You can't keep out of the water in any temp. I'm sure you would have to keep them indoors in the long winters in central Alaska, though. One draw back is they are expensive so loosing one would not be good.

    Just a thought.

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    Bear killer,
    i live in palmer alaska an run hounds on black bear. the wolves up here dont seem to bother the dogs like they do in the lower 48. not that they couldent but i have had no probems with them as of yet. there is abig difference beween the smell of a grizz and the smell of a blckbear. all of my older dogs are completley broke of f grizz. you can run off of bait her in alaska. with your hound permit. but i ould advisestaying away from other at hunters the last thing you want to do is have a pacof dogs running thrugh someones bait site while they are trying t hunt. my dogs are walker, black-n-tan cross they do fine in the winter i cn run up to 10 dogs on my permit but i rarley evr ue more than 4 and i have caught a number of bear with 1 and 2 dogs. the bear in alaska are fairly easy to catch compaired to the bear in th lower 48 that have had generations of dogs chasing them. most fthee bear have never seen a hound.

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    Do you ever cold trail bears? Or is it hot bear tracks only?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak hound man View Post
    Bear killer,
    i live in palmer alaska an run hounds on black bear. the wolves up here dont seem to bother the dogs like they do in the lower 48. not that they couldent but i have had no probems with them as of yet. there is abig difference beween the smell of a grizz and the smell of a blckbear. all of my older dogs are completley broke of f grizz. you can run off of bait her in alaska. with your hound permit. but i ould advisestaying away from other at hunters the last thing you want to do is have a pacof dogs running thrugh someones bait site while they are trying t hunt. my dogs are walker, black-n-tan cross they do fine in the winter i cn run up to 10 dogs on my permit but i rarley evr ue more than 4 and i have caught a number of bear with 1 and 2 dogs. the bear in alaska are fairly easy to catch compaired to the bear in th lower 48 that have had generations of dogs chasing them. most fthee bear have never seen a hound.
    My dog is a cross of Fox terrrier and Black and Tan hound. She is around 18# and fiesty when needed. Only one dog for me and get the permit for her to be legal off leash. She has not treed a bear, but chased her fair share and aided in the kill of one this year. Even faught it once it was shot. Problem is she is fast and can't usually keep up and from the sign, the bears tuck tail and run. Awesome though to hear her and see her go after them! My dog's breed is pure bread German Jag'd Terrier. Got her out of Colorado in '06.

  18. #18

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    I owned a walker hound from a friend who runs cats in Montana. He wintered over here in the coldest of temperatures. I personally would build a kennel if I was going to own more of them. I simply couldn't run this dog enough and give him the life he needed at a working dog, so took him back to Montana. He was a beautiful dog and would have loved to just have him as a pet.

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    Bearkiller,
    I do cold trail them all the time, because i want my young dogs to b able to cold trail. i got out of state for a month every winter andgo lion hunting with them, so i want them to be able to work out those old lion tracks. i have always been impressed by a dog that could work an old track and put an animal at the end of it. that being said, there is enough bear here that you wouldent need to cold trail them, just go until you get a hot strike or run them off of a bait. but some of the areas up here you can just wait untill you actually see the bear and turn loose on it that way. so its all up to you.

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    I have seen other guys in idaho and canada that use the Jag'd terrier dogs in the bear pack as well and they seem to realy like them. I love to listen the sound of the dogs on the trail. does your dog bark while it is trailing or just when it sees the bear. it is probably a good thing that she dosent chase them to far before she comes back if your not useing tracking equiptment a bear can cover alot of country in a hurry and could easily get lost if it got out of hearing from you. what part of alaska do you live/ hunt in.

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