T-Work with Banks
Hi everyone, Banks and I have been working on T-work lately and he is coming along pretty good. We've done training both on land and in water and he seems to really enjoy it. Banks turned 10 months old yesterday and I'd say he is coming along pretty strong. Below is a link of us doing some T-work so all comments are welcome...the good, bad and the ugly.
now excuse me, I have to get back to this Sam Adams Summer Ale.
Looks good !!!! I like the fact that you have stretched out the back pile from what we started him on. Do the same with the overs as well to at least 30 yds if your field will allow it. In my T drills my main line will be 150yds.
The only clean up that I see is purely mechanical. I like for them to deliver at a front sit. Makes things flow a lot quicker and they are already positioned for the next cast. Also at the level that he is running T I start disciplined casting. Sit him coming in with a bumper in the mouth and then cast him back or to one of the over piles. I do this to prep them for swimby. We did a little version of swimby while I was up there if I remember right.
What exactly have you done as far as casting in the water?
I would extend out his base line and the overs. I also know his basics on force are not complete. So he needs to be forced on the baseline and may even need to be forced on overs. With his desire I wouldn't stay on this very long as long as I saw no issues.
He needs lots of non cheaty water marks.
Have you done any wagon wheel drills using "here" and "heel" Just getting started on the fun road of training.
You have a great dog with lots of talent. With what little time I worked with him I could tell he could go far. I really hated to see him go. He could go far in this game.
Call me any time.
Thanks Baron I appreciate the advice.
I agree I'll have to extend the overs but my back yard won't allow it unless I flip the field...shorten the back pile and extend the overs. Instead I'll just go to a field on post and continue to work on this. Tonight we did some double T and he did great. No cast refusals.
I have been doing some definitive casting like you said last time and he has been doing good with it...really not too many hick ups.
As far as casting into the water I've done the force like you showed me on back and a little on over. For me, he really didn't show any hesitation when casting "over" into the water so I really didn't force him that much at all.
Two nights ago, I put some decoys in the water and shot some skeet and worked on him being steady. He did pretty good. He got a little excited but I gave him a nick and he responded correctly. I also pulled out some frozen birds and had my buddy toss them to the left, right and behind the decoys and I sent banks. I sent him to the back bird then a whistle and gave an "over" cast. He took the cast and picked up the bird. He actually kinda dove for the bird because it was sinking...it was actually pretty funny.
Wagon Wheel: we touched on this a little last week but not a lot. I know we need to work on this so we're going to dedicate this week to work on that.
Non cheaty marks: we're working on them but I guess there is a reason why we call him "Banks".
Thanks for all the advice!
Nice going Richie
Good to see you 2 still at it. Looks and sounds like WR is giving you sound advice. I'll throw in some thoughts and let you mull them over.
Normally, when I stop a dog, either from a line, or a back cast, I do so to change his direction. Which means rarely will I send a dog "back", stop him, and cast him "back" to where he was heading in the first place. Stopping him, to me, means he should be thinking about a new line, or new destination, not the same place he thought he was going.
Second, seems you have good balance, but watch his ears, speed, and attitude. Stopping a dog too often, especially on "back", seems to produce a dog that expects it which leads to popping, or the dog stopping and turning to look at you without a command to do so. He should be rolling through the junction in your "t", not slowing down waiting for the whistle.
Keep in mind that the dog may try to anticipate the cast once he is stopped. Keep him guessing and waiting for the cast.
And as always, if you get into a problem, go back to squre one and start over.
AKRR, sound advice as always. Your point makes perfect sense. I've been trying to stick with a 3 to 1 ratio when stopping Banks on the way to the back pile. This really wasn't displayed in the video because I was trying to shorten it...because it takes forever to upload to youtube.
I did notice Banks was anticipating a cast and started to look back. I gave him a nick and "back" and he picked up the pace.
I'm really enjoying training Banks and hope we continue to improve in order to have him ready for duck season.
AKRR I understand your theory about not casting back on the same line often but don't agree with the concept.
This dog is still learning "Basics" and is just learning basic handling in the yard. With no concept on what a cold blind is. T and TT are good for teaching this concept learning casting and change in direction with a cast. At this level we are only talking about "backs" and "overs". The way I think of it.... I switch up. Sometimes I will stop at an apex and cast to one of the overs. The next I may run the back pile about three times before another whsitle. Then stop and a cast em to continue on the base line. Always keeping them guessing. I don't want the dog to get into the habit that every time he is stopped to expect a 90 degree direction change. Especially during T work. I do spend a lot of time on the baseline. I start and finish with the back pile. It is a matter of go where sent discipline to go threw the apexes with out becoming distracted and caving in to the suction they create. So casting threw that suction is a matter of importance.
I agree with your statement for mid to late transition dogs. Hopefully if I've done my basics correctly while handling I only need a left or right back or maybe a slight angle back to keep them on line. If I need an over to get back on line then I've got other issues going on. Mainly from not taking an initial line or giving into factors that present itself ie wind, terrain, avoiding cover, cheating the water and etc and etc. Mainly the dogs are giving into suction and arent giving you the cast you are loooking for and not changing direction. That is where I train on literal casting and correct for not taking the literal cast (the cast it takes to get directly to the blind)(and I hope its not an over). Also there should'nt be any factors in your T field plus the destination is visible.
Keeping the drill balanced by not blowing to many sit whistles is important. Like AKRR states it can create popping. Also if you nick too much in one location on your baseline you may create bugging at the line and or flaring away from that spot on your baseline. There are tricks to fix these problems when they pop up.
Balance with marks
I didn't see a mention of this. I trained with Dan DeVos for a couple of years- Pro from Ontario handler trainer for a quite a few CFCs an a couple NCFCs, mixed in short hand thrown marks with the drills to:
1- maintain momentum and attitude and
2- make the mark and blind distinct commands
3 get them used to the combination.
4- drill the handler as well as the dog. When under judgement or the excietment of a real hunt the dogs will work better when the handler has distinct consistant reactions. It's easier to stay in the moment when the movements are muscle memory response to what is out in front of you. I can think of one time my consistancy saved an entire day on the last bird.
Later after the T and TT were solid, Dan took it to a field, had specific markers in the field with chairs, logs to go over, whatever set at the appropriate level of the dog to avoid undue confusion and repeated backs and overs with a mark to draw the dog off those lines so they could correct and instill the line.
The order was to pick up the mark, then line up for the blind (s).
I think at one point he'd even make the mark a tasty dead duck and even a clip wing but all at the appropriate time for the dog's level. After I did that drill with him for one afternoon, we passed 3 SRs in a row with a wild Snake-eyes granddaughter.