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Thread: Goretex

  1. #1

    Default Goretex

    A desert boater here in the lower 48 just posted that Goretex and other waterproof breathable fabrics are not waterproof enough for Alaska and all the rain you get there.

    Since I will be there in July to run a river and do some fishing, I am hoping he is wrong. All my raingear is Goretex. If I need to I will go and buy the rubberized raingear.

    Please advise.

    Lori

  2. #2
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Default Rain Gear

    Buy Helly Hanson Impertec. I also have gortex and it will get wet. Transfer is what kills gortex. As you touch something wet it forces the water into the cloth. On my sheep hunt this year it rained for 10 days straight days and my Helly Hanson is the only thing that kept me dry. I like the impertec because it streches. I take at least 2 sets of rain gear on every trip and sometimes 3. I like my HH too large so I can get some air thru it. You will sweat if you are not carefull.

    Steve

  3. #3

    Default

    that desert boater is retarded.

    bring your gortex and use synthetics to layer underneath and you'll be drier than the dudes sweating in the rubber. The only case I can think of for rubber is for people out on the ocean in the salt water.

    Considering the standard for waders these days is goretex and I've never been wet in them despite standing waist deep all day in water...i'd say goretex is pretty reliable protection.

  4. #4
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Default Drying

    The other thing to consider in rain gear is how to dry it out. If you are floating and living out of a tent, it is almost impossible to dry wet clothes while it is still raining. If you have a house, cabin or other dry place at night to dry it out with a heat sorce Gortex and the others work well. A 45 degree day is not bad unless you are wet for hours on end. Takes the fun out real fast. You can never be to dry in Alaska. Cold and wet, can get you in trouble in a hurry, or at the very least make you miserable. Spend the $100.00 bucks.

    Air Fare to Alaska $800.00
    Float Fishing a River $500.00
    Staying dry, warm and toasty Priceless

    Hope you have an awesome trip.

    Steve

  5. #5
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default personnel Pref!

    I am not a huge Goretex Fan that being said some are. I spend more than ample time on the water during the THAW MONTHS and nothing protects you beeter than PVC H & H rain gear! I own both have hunted, fished and guided in both and again if you see my or my guides on the water you will find us in PVC gear verses Goretex. Just food for thought!

    P.S.

    If your only fihsing a couple of days and near a camp your current rain gear will be fine. If you plan on being out and about for a week away from the comforts of home bring your PVC rain gear. Once your wet your wet simple as that!

    Best Wishes

    Richard Mousseau
    www.bluemooserafting.com

  6. #6
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Disagree-

    Quote Originally Posted by indyjones View Post
    that desert boater is retarded.

    bring your gortex and use synthetics to layer underneath and you'll be drier than the dudes sweating in the rubber. The only case I can think of for rubber is for people out on the ocean in the salt water.

    Considering the standard for waders these days is goretex and I've never been wet in them despite standing waist deep all day in water...i'd say goretex is pretty reliable protection.
    Indy,

    Gotta disagree with you on this one. Gore-tex is just not up to Alaska standards, as anyone who has used it here for long will tell you. Eventually it leaks everywhere a needle has passed through it. Sleeve seams and shoulder areas especially.

    I don't know what breathable waders are made of, but they certainly do work. I've been using them for several years, and I usually get one season out of a pair.

    As to the raingear, most of the guides I know are using Helly Hansen Impertech. You might be thinking of the commercial raingear made by HH; Impertech is much lighter and more flexible. Yes, you do get plenty of condensation inside, but until somebody comes up with a breathable topper that really works, we're sorta stuck with it. I would rather be wet from condensation than have raingear that leaks. Gore-tex leaks. Breathable waders don't (I don't know why, but they don't).

    The guy from Arizona is right.

    -Mike
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  7. #7
    Member bgreen's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    Indy,

    Gotta disagree with you on this one. Gore-tex is just not up to Alaska standards, as anyone who has used it here for long will tell you. Eventually it leaks everywhere a needle has passed through it. Sleeve seams and shoulder areas especially.

    I don't know what breathable waders are made of, but they certainly do work. I've been using them for several years, and I usually get one season out of a pair.

    As to the rain gear, most of the guides I know are using Helly Hansen Impertech. You might be thinking of the commercial raingear made by HH; Impertech is much lighter and more flexible. Yes, you do get plenty of condensation inside, but until somebody comes up with a breathable topper that really works, we're sorta stuck with it. I would rather be wet from condensation than have raingear that leaks. Gore-tex leaks. Breathable waders don't (I don't know why, but they don't).

    The guy from Arizona is right.

    -Mike
    x2

    and... for Alaskan use, goretex works better when its really cold, ie freezing. Its great for winter activities, but falls really short when it starts getting close to 32 degrees. You will get wet. Not just sweaty wet either, I'm talking soaked to the bone wet. Especially if your physically engaged with another solid object, like the seat of a canoe, 4wheeler, the terrain, etc.

    *the above is based on 20 years of goretex experience with everything from North Face to Colombia, to cabelas.
    The individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State.

  8. #8

    Default the gore tex works....the liner kills you

    I think that gore tex is in fact water proof enough for any amount of rain....the problem is that it does not breath as well as we would like it to and it always has a lining fabric which holds our own perspiration on the inside. If a person could stay cool enough in gore tex I am sure you would stay as dry or more dry then pvc, but it never happens. think about the breathable waders, your legs are never swaety so you tend to not be "wet" while wearing them yet they typically do not leak.

    Gore, dry plus, titanium, rivers west.....yada yada, they all make fabrics that are infact waterproof and to some extents breathable, but in a tent that is at best 40* and humidity is at 100% you are never gonna dry fabric, pvc can be dried by a good shake and the help of gravity.

    That is my take on it.

    I wear gore tex on day/weekend trips and rubber if it is just plain not gonna stop dumping or I will be out for a few days or more.

  9. #9
    Member Montana Native's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highcountry View Post
    I think that gore tex is in fact water proof enough for any amount of rain....the problem is that it does not breath as well as we would like it to and it always has a lining fabric which holds our own perspiration on the inside. If a person could stay cool enough in gore tex I am sure you would stay as dry or more dry then pvc, but it never happens. think about the breathable waders, your legs are never swaety so you tend to not be "wet" while wearing them yet they typically do not leak.

    Gore, dry plus, titanium, rivers west.....yada yada, they all make fabrics that are infact waterproof and to some extents breathable, but in a tent that is at best 40* and humidity is at 100% you are never gonna dry fabric, pvc can be dried by a good shake and the help of gravity.

    That is my take on it.

    I wear gore tex on day/weekend trips and rubber if it is just plain not gonna stop dumping or I will be out for a few days or more.
    Considering my business is to test commercial items available to consumers, I have tested many brands. I think Highcountry summed it up quite well, the colder the weather, the more feasible use for goretex & its sister fabrics. Although HH, Grudens, ect are primarily PVC, aside from rips or tears, the only wettness you'll receive is from your own prespiration. On cooler days, the prespiration/condensation will increase your "cool" factor. In a nut shell~ if it's snowing wear the goretex, if its raining wear HH or similar... my 2 cents
    Respect what you do not own but are privleged to enjoy, Mother Earth thanks you...

  10. #10

    Default Thanks!

    Thanks Guys,

    I will still bring my Goretex dry suit but I will bring something made of PVC to wear over it if needed. I will be on the Tatshenshini for 14 days and yes we are living out of tents. Thanks for the suggestions of fabric and brands, I truly appreciate it.

    Even though I was on a Grand Canyon trip that snowed for 2 days and then rained for an additional 8, wet weather in the desert is just not the same as wet weather in a northern rainforest.

    You guys are great!

    Lori

  11. #11
    Member Buck Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Gore-tex is often the best choice

    I know Gore-tex works because I wore a breathable Gore-tex clone rain parka for three months or so this year in what may have been the rainiest summer on record in northern Alaska. Believe me, it rained a lot and I was sleeping in an unheated tent every night. On this trip a well-designed lightweight breathable rain parka was a much better choice than heavier waterproof/non-breathable rain gear.

    There is no single best set of gear for all situations. For example, I think it would be foolish to wear Gore-tex rain gear if I were working on a crab boat. But one thing to keep in mind is you should be concerned about over-all comfort, and it's usually NOT pouring rain, even in Alaska. Gore-tex is usually more comfortable to wear when youíre active or when youíre wearing your rain parka for wind protection or warmth. Gore-tex does breathe enough to make a real difference, hence its popularity.

    Early Gore-tex often leaked at the seams as mentioned. Poorly manufactured items still do. But good modern Gore-tex clothing, properly made, works well.

    In my opinion, indyjones got it right. Gore-tex waders prove it works great if the item is made properly. If you have quality Gore-tex , wear synthetics under it and you'll be good to go.

  12. #12

    Default Pros and cons of Gore-tex

    Gore-tex is great for cold weather activities. But gore-tex has a problem when itís used in prolonged drizzle that lasts for days on end, the problem with Gore-tex rain gear is the outer fabrics that the Gore-tex is laminated to. These fabrics generally have a very high surface tension when compared to PVC or Polyurethane. This means water doesnít run off them as easy and the outer fabric gets saturated with water. Once the outer fabric is soaked with water the gore-tex allows this water to be pressed through from the outside. This is especially true in areas of contact such as backpack straps, 4 wheeler seats. Boat seatsÖ
    Gore-tex rain gear will let water through at about 70 PSI.

    Gore-tex waders and dry suits use a different lay-up of Gore-tex with a higher PSI rating then the Gore-tex used in rain gear. Gore-tex waders with a rain gear top and Gore-tex dry-suites work very well as rain gear.

    Heavy PVC coated nylon works great for the slime line where you need to wash the fish smell off your rain gear. It is 100% waterproof but it will get you wet from the inside due to condensation and your own perspiration.

    When it comes to being out in the wet drizzling rainy weather for days or weeks on end the best rain gear is Polyurethane coated polyester. The inside fabric of polyester wicks the condensation and allows it to dissipate through the urethane. The Urethane outer has a very low surface tension so the water runs right off. Itís tough, lightweight and stretchy. Helly Hanson Impertech, Dutch harbor gear and peter storm are all this type of rain gear. Depending on how heavy the coating of polyurethane depends on the breath ability. The HH Impertec is the lightest coated. It takes about 100 PSI to push water through it. Peter storm takes about 110 PSI, I also think HH has come out with a heavier coated type of Impertech.

    I hope this helps

    Good Boating

    Jim King
    Alaska Series Inflatable Boats,
    Commercial quality at Wholesale prices
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  13. #13
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Thanks, Jim!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Series Inflatable Boats View Post
    Gore-tex is great for cold weather activities. But gore-tex has a problem when itís used in prolonged drizzle that lasts for days on end...
    Jim,

    I appreciate your insights on this. I don't know the technical side of it, but I do hear a lot of user reports on failed Gore-Tex. It seems that the common link between many of them is older or dirty fabric.

    I think there may be some confusion with some readers concerning HH Impertech and heavier grades of Helly Hansen that are used for commercial fishing. I own both, and wouldn't dream of using the commercial fishing raingear for hunting. It's just too heavy. The Impertech is as light as anything else I've seen. It's lighter than almost all the Gore-Tex jackets I've seen, because it's just a simple shell you wear over other things. The only other jacket I've personally used that came close to the performance of Helly Hansen Impertech is the stuff made by Kool-Dri. But it was too noisy, being made of urethane coated nylon. It has the same issues with condensation / perspiration as HH Impertech or any of the other non-breathable shells.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
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  14. #14
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Default You nailed it Jim!!!!

    Well said Jim, I agree a 100%. The HH Impertex is pretty lite too. Compared to other PVC types. Plus it has some stretch to it.

    Steve

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    Thumbs up Gore-tex --- from -60 to +80....

    arivergoddess...

    I've used Gore-tex for 29 years...and it has changed immensely in that time...all for the better.

    In the early years, persperation and dirt tended to clog the pores in the film, causing rain to come on thru and end breathability...proper washing and fabric treatment usually fixed that.

    In recent years, advances in Gore's technology solved many of the earlier hassles....The "film" became much more resistant to clogging...seam leakage was ended by hi-tech factory seam sealing...breathability was improved... now we can even buy stretch Gore-tex....It's now a fully developed, mature technology.

    Last August, my hunting partner and I took a 5 day, 170 mile pre-season scouting trip on small rivers to our moose hunting area - in an open 19' Grumman...It rained the entire trip - mostly steady with periods of down-pour....In the late afternoons for 2-3 hours the clouds would part, rain would stop...but after dusk, clouds and steady rain returned....My partner wore my 8 year-old Mountain Hardwear Gore-tex shell (3 layer laminate ... I use it mostly in the winter w/ a removable ruff on it), and I wore my
    Cabelas Gore-tex (z-drop liner) Ultimate Hunting jacket....Neither of us had any leakage - NONE....NO condensation....No complaints.

    I've worn Gore-tex parkas and full suits - both insulated and shells - in winter for the past 26 years - including 4 Iditarods in 9 years ...guiding winter dog trips over 6 years...snow maching and general winter outdoor use....And it's worked very well....But, I don't think that anything breathes well below -20...nothing does...the colder the temperature, the closer the "dew point" moves to the body, forcing atleast some condensation...mild frosting, but still not icing.... Excellant, but not perfect in the cold...nothing is, but, I think, Gore-tex or its sibling Windstopper are the most functional choices for winter....

    Finally, 3 points:
    1)...For maximum performance, wash and re-treat the Gore-tex before a trip... with products specifically designed for cleaning and restoring Gore-tex... available at good backpacking/hiking retailers....
    2)...Wear only modern synthetic garments - that dry on you - no wool or cotton...(wool when wet will keep you warm, but it stays wet....
    3)...Finally, if your Gore-tex doesn't seem to work as claimed, call Gore and complain....They will take your compaint seriously and fix it or make it right....They have for me twice....

    Gore-tex is great as long as you know how to use it /care for it as part of our modern outdoor kit....

    By the way - Michael Strahan...Why, do you think, you trust Gore-tex breathable wadders to work, but not garments? I.e., why has it worked for you underwater, but not in the rain? By the way, seam leakage was cured by modern seam sealing - at least in quality garments - over 15 years ago...in my experience.

    Sorry to be soooo long winded. I think Gore-tex gets a bum rap sometimes ... here in Alaska.

  16. #16
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    Default

    Floated 15y in Ak,different rivers, ordinary gore-tex (columbia) works fine for me. Is gore-tex sufficient for the GC? I'm going this spring. Hopefully.

  17. #17

    Default Possible Grand Canyon voyage

    Gore tex is great for the Grand Canyon, if you get wet you will dry, your clothes will usually dry over night unless it is early spring. By early spring I mean late February, March and early April. Anything after that will be quite warm and after June one will be VERY HOT!

    I rarely sleep in a tent on the GC if it is hot I sleep on my boat it is much cooler out there AND scorpions usually do not go off the sand and rocks to get on the boats. If it is raining hard I set up my tent but if it is just light rain, I use a tent footprint and attach it to the D rings of my boat and sleep under that.

    Just remember it can be very warm but you can have days of sleet on end as well. Pack for cold rain throw in some shorts, sandals and some cotton you can get wet and wear if you get a heat wave. Or use a sarong.

    Have a great time!

    Lori

  18. #18
    Member smwwoody's Avatar
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    Default Why Risk it????

    I live in south east Alaska. I work outside. I live in the bush. I know rain gear. I own it all. A good set of PVC type rain gear will set you back About $150. Why would you risk a trip to Alaska on bad rain gear. Bring your gortex but also bring the PVC. Use what works for you. The PVC will keep the rain out and will dry. $150 sounds like cheep insurance to me. I use them all depending on what I am doing. Most of the time I mix and match.

    Woody

  19. #19

    Default Rain Gear

    Ah Woody,

    What you suggested with raingear is exactly what I already posted I would do. I do not intend to chance it.

    My last post was an off topic post to someone asking me about the Grand Canyon. It is a river I have run 6 times. Perhaps I should have changed the thread. I don't know.

    Lori

  20. #20
    Member smwwoody's Avatar
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    Default

    Sorry Lori

    I didn't see that post. I can get kind of rough about rain gear. I hear people debating what rain gear to bring on an Alaskan outdoor trip. There are a lot of places that OK rain gear will work just fine. Alaska is not one of them. I am glad to see you are making the smart choice. Bring it all and use what works for you. You would have a tough time getting me in a tent in Alaska with out my Grundens some times they never come out of the pach but they are there when I need them.

    Woody

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