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Thread: Is this sheep legal?

  1. #1
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    Default Is this sheep legal?

    Hi all. I posted a picture of a ram here: http://www.gi.alaska.edu/~pcotter/P5301103.JPG for you all to take a look at and let me know if you think this is legal under the full curl definition. I have yet to actually shoot a ram although I have passed up a couple that were really similar to this guy. Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default Nope

    Doesn't look legal. It looks close, but not legal. It appears to be an eliptical (oval) circle instead of a round circle. Don't take it from me though, I've only sheep hunted once and didn't get anything! I'll be out there again this year though.


    Tim

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    I'd pass on this one. Letting a nice ram like this walk away is always tough to do, but it's not worth the risk. From my working knowledge of full-curl regulations, he seems to be just short (not 360 degrees, and just barely short of the tip coming up to the base.) Furthermore, although I don't think I'd ever shoot a sheep based on rings, he seems to only have 6-7 definite annuli. Let him grow for another year.

    -Brian

  4. #4
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Default close call

    The photo is too blurry to accurately count annuli. I think this ram would get a green tag if you took him in to be sealed. Remember you have up to 1/2" of horn base that is covered by hair and is not visible right now but will be when you have him caped out.

    On a related note, has anyone checked out the sheep sealing portion of the ADF&G web site recently? Looks like there has been a change (for the better) in interpretation of full curl since last year.

  5. #5

    Default Yes..

    if he was in the right unit, otherwise I would pass on him. If he is ina a full curl unit then I would be back there next year looking for him!

  6. #6
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    Default legal

    yes, this ram is legal. with the cape off, the horn tips will meet the base.

  7. #7
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default absolutely legal.

    Good points chisana and others, and the photo itself is somewhat skewed at an angle also. You can see the other curl and certainly if the view was absolutely straight on from the side one wouldnt see the other horn and the curl would 360* wrap.
    This ram would pass muster and he'd be in my game bag without hesitation.
    Too tough to count annuli in that photo, however.
    Frank

  8. #8
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Good thoughts posted here, and even though I'd feel 90% confident that he's legal, I still wouldn't shoot. Mostly sure isn't good enough for me, nor is being sure that he'd be legal once the cape is off. Not worth the headache and worry...and besides, if I pass him up I get to keep hunting sheep, which after all is my favorite pursuit!

    -Brian

  9. #9
    Member jdb3's Avatar
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    Default Sheep

    In years past I would have taken him with no questions asked. Somewhere along the line the old time ADF&G guys departed and the new breed don't seem to know what a full curl is. They use to just take a quick look. They did not measure because with a quick look the 7/8th curl would stand out. That being said, I would probably still take him. Jim

  10. #10
    Member AkBillyBow's Avatar
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    Default

    Looks like a 7/8 curl to me. Have to let him go.

    AkBillyBow

  11. #11
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    Default

    Based on this picture, at this angle, I would say no, let him go. Close but not 360 and not legal in a full curl area. It would be tough to do but ....

  12. #12

    Question Chisana

    "On a related note, has anyone checked out the sheep sealing portion of the ADF&G web site recently? Looks like there has been a change (for the better) in interpretation of full curl since last year."


    What are the change's to the sheep sealing requirement? I didn't notice any change, maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Can you post a link to it?

  13. #13
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default Close

    It doesn't look like a full curl to me, at least based on the pictures from the ADF&G website.


    Tim
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14

    Default Full Curl

    If it was me he'd be a dead sheep, at least if he let me get drawn back on him he would be... no hesitation.

  15. #15
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default tccak71...

    Tim, if you notice in the first sketch you posted the horn is seen straight on from the side.
    The picture in question is slightly from above and the front, This is why it looks a bit less than 360*. And as was mentioned a straight edge along the base edge (below the hair) would probably reveal a ram slightly PASSED full curl-albeit slightly, who knows, maybe a 1/4 inch or so?
    I always give props to guys who pass on sheep for sake of certainty. We all know sheep are shot sublegal every year.
    But I would add that MANY get passed over because guys have not studied them long enough to confidently know what dictates a legal ram. (Like the the one in the picture).
    Regards, Frank

  16. #16
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Default sealing

    AK,

    Last year when ADF&G was sealing sheep they would place a straight edge across the base of the horns and check to see if one of the tips hit the straight edge. This is equivelant to the view you would have straight from the side of a ram. The photos currently on the web site show determination of full curl by looking at the horn on the axis where the horn makes a perfect circle, rather than straight from the side (a view from which many horns make an oblong shape rather than a circle). I don't know if I have explained this well or not, but the method for determining full curl shown on the web site is vastly different from that used when my sheep was sealed last August.

    Chisana

  17. #17
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Default I agree with Frank

    I believe the ram in the original picture would pass muster when you brought him in to be sealed, but really he should be passed up for a larger/older ram.

  18. #18

    Default Ahh, my favorite subject...

    Well used to be anyways. I'm growing weary of the debate. Although the "Stick Test" is very popular among bios and troopers, the regs do not make any correlation of the horn tips to the bases, though the crappy pictures and diagrams infer that. The reg states 360 degrees. I've seen sheep with tips that have grown past 360 degrees without being able to pass the stick test and vice versa. The tips on this ram appear to still be pointing forward. I don't think he's 360 degrees. He's close though, and a different camera angle could change my mind.

  19. #19
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    Default

    In a normal harvest permit area, I'd probably take him. However, since I'm hunting the TMA this fall, I'd pass on him for something bigger.

  20. #20
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    Default New standards or not?

    So has Chisana or anyone determined if there are new sealing standards? That clarification sort of died out here.

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