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Thread: Parks HWY EO's

  1. #1
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default Parks HWY EO's

    Yet another sport fish closure: Parks Hwy king fisheries are closed effective Friday, July 2nd, at 11pm. This includes the Little Su.

    Talkeetna and Chulitna drainages open to king fishing will be reduced to a 1 fish annual limit effective the same day.

    Fish and Game is using precautionary management based on aerial (helicopter), foot, and float surveys of the Parks Hwy streams. I agree that if it needs doing, do it. I just hate the fact that the only precautionary approach happens in the sport fishery.

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    Member salmon_bone's Avatar
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    especially 2 days after the last commercial opener of the season!

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    Default Whose fish?

    Amazing - but not surprising - now this works. The comm guys get the fish - the sport guys get the bone.''

    What else is new?


    Quote Originally Posted by salmon_bone View Post
    especially 2 days after the last commercial opener of the season!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Am I right to assume that the Deshka will remain open since it has met min escapement?

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    Sure makes people happy to have paid for a king stamp only to sit and watch this happen time and again. What was the purpose in charging for a stamp? What happened to the hatcheries that were closed years ago? What happened to stocking the parks highway streams? Glad I didn't waste any money on stamps this year.

    This is starting to remind me of state parks and annual permits. Used to be a good deal for anyone that utilized the parks much. It wasn't supposed to be available to non residents but they sure didn't hesitate to sell annual permits to businesses that rented motorhomes to non residents and people from foreign countries. Now what do we have, no benefit as residents in our own state. Heck we can't even buy an annual camping pass now. Sorry for getting off base a bit but it seems like sportsman or going to loose again

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    Member AKBighorn's Avatar
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    I haven't read the EO but it seems like they closed the Little Sue the last time even though its run wasn't in trouble. Seems like the reasoning was to prevent flocks of people heading to the last open river......

    Just a hunch but I'd guess Deschka will be closed as well.

  7. #7

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by salmon_bone View Post
    especially 2 days after the last commercial opener of the season!
    Sssssssssshhhh, you are gonna get labeled if you keep bringing up the facts.

    We Deserve what we Tolerate.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Default just cannot get it correct

    Quote Originally Posted by willphish4food View Post
    Yet another sport fish closure: Parks Hwy king fisheries are closed effective Friday, July 2nd, at 11pm. This includes the Little Su.

    Talkeetna and Chulitna drainages open to king fishing will be reduced to a 1 fish annual limit effective the same day.

    Fish and Game is using precautionary management based on aerial (helicopter), foot, and float surveys of the Parks Hwy streams. I agree that if it needs doing, do it. I just hate the fact that the only precautionary approach happens in the sport fishery.
    Willphish4food, do you not have access to the actions ADF&G took in the fisheries this year? It seems you post without looking at anything. The commercial fisheries were restricted in the Northern District this year. So what is this about only the precautionary approach takes place in the sport fisheries. It is irresponsible to be posting this misinformation.

    Just for the record the first action was taken on 5/11 and the next on 6/14. In addition, according to the management plans which you also fail to read it states conservation actions are to be in proportion to harvest. Thus the sport fishery is to take most of the conservation action since they harvest the greater portion of the fish.

    Finally, the Parks streams will always have issues. They are on the road system and those runs cannot support the effort of the Mat/Su and Anchorage because the runs are not large, even in good years.

    So can we stop this posting of misinformation and bashing of other user groups or are you going to continue to try and incite feelings and emotions that are not defensible and thus everyone loses as rationale thought cannot take place.

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    I just amazes me how many people keep posting misinformation on this forum........sure glad Nerka is out there trying to keep us honest.

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    Member RustyMonkey's Avatar
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    LuJon, here is the EO.



    STATEWIDE NEWS RELEASE
    ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME
    Denby S. Lloyd, Commissioner
    DIVISION OF SPORT FISH
    Charles O. Swanton, Director
    Contact: Sam Ivey, Assistant Area Management Biologist
    Palmer (907) 746-6300 Disclaimer


    Parks Highway Streams, Little Susitna River Closed to King Salmon Fishing; Talkeetna, Chulitna King Salmon Annual Limit reduced to One Beginning July 2
    JUNE 30, 2010
    PALMER, Alaska -- The Parks Highway streams in Unit 2 of the Susitna River drainage and the Little Susitna River are closed to fishing for king salmon effective at 11:00 p.m., Friday, July 2, through the remainder of the king salmon sport fishing season. Waters normally open to king salmon fishing in Unit 2 are now closed to all sport fishing; these waters include the lower sections of the Kashwitna River, and Willow, Little Willow, Greys, Caswell, Sheep, Montana, Goose, Sunshine, Birch, Trapper, and Rabideux creeks and all flowing waters of the Susitna River from the confluence with the Deshka River upstream to the confluence with the Talkeetna River.
    Little Susitna River anglers may continue to fish for species other than king salmon downstream of the Parks Highway bridge. Further, waters in Unit 2 normally closed to king salmon fishing throughout the year (upstream of the Parks Highway bridges or department markers, etc.) are not affected by this closure and anglers may continue to fish for trout and other species. Please refer to pages 26-28 of the Southcentral Alaska Sport Fishing Regulations Summary booklet for locations of boundary markers in these streams.
    A separate emergency order reduces the annual limit for king salmon in the Talkeetna and Chulitna River drainages in Units 5-6 of the Susitna River drainage from five fish to one fish effective at 11 p.m., Friday, July 2. Any king salmon recorded before Saturday, July 3, on the harvest portion of an Alaska sport fishing license or harvest record card does not count against the one king salmon that may be harvested after July 2. Even though fishing last weekend was much better than it has been the last couple of years at the mouths of Montana and Willow creeks, recent boat and foot surveys revealed low numbers of kings in traditional holding areas for this time of year. A helicopter survey of Eastside Susitna streams further substantiated far fewer fish than optimal for achieving escapement goals on several Parks Highway streams. Willow, Sheep, and Goose creeks have not met their escapement goals in the past three years. Given the close proximity to other Parks Highway streams, it is likely that a closure of the Parks Highway streams would transfer a significant amount of sport fishing effort to both the Talkeetna and Chulitna area and Little Susitna River. Any additional harvest associated with increased angler participation may jeopardize the likelihood of Talkeetna and Chulitna drainage streams and the Little Susitna River achieving their escapement goals this season.
    "Safety does not happen by accident, it's a choice"

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    Smile glad to help

    Quote Originally Posted by gusdog44 View Post
    I just amazes me how many people keep posting misinformation on this forum........sure glad Nerka is out there trying to keep us honest.
    Well gusdog44, I am glad to help you and others out. If I am wrong please point it out and I will retract any statement that is wrong. I have done this when others have posted corrections on something I said. Have not seen your latest Russain River projection -

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    Minimum escapement goal is 14,000 and as of yesterday the department reports 14,100 through the weir. I'm happy to see that as I was very concerned at the beginning of the run.....glad the biologists were right.

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    Member salmon_bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Sssssssssshhhh, you are gonna get labeled if you keep bringing up the facts.

    We Deserve what we Tolerate.
    I don't care! Big deal, they took 6 hours from them whoa is meee

    tvfinak
    Amazing - but not surprising - now this works. The comm guys get the fish - the sport guys get the bone.''

    What else is new?
    It's true, it has happened the last few years. You would think with all the fist pounding, meetings, and input from sport fisherman/women, that some better management would be done! If the fish return is slow, limit everyone! Don't wait until the comm fish have their days.
    Maybe they should do away with comm fish and start fish farms. Wait then the comm fish would have to stay in Alaska, and deal with the cold and actually work all year

    Just like the this post..
    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    I hope some day my grandson is on this site and the comfish and sportfish guys are going at it over the salmon like there is no tomorrow.
    Without freedom of speech and argument and if everyone agreed, this site would be boring anyways
    I'm waiting with my fire proof suit on from all the flaming I'm about to get

  14. #14
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    Default more emotion???

    The emotion keeps flowing the facts make no difference. For the record the total Chinook harvest in the Northern District by the commercial fishery was 1568 (from the ADF&G web site). So lets look at that - there are hundreds of streams in the Northern District that have Chinook salmon spawning or rearing in them. Just from the emergency order and the major system there are probably over two dozen of these streams. So spread the 1568 fish out into these systems in proportion to their abundance. The Deshka has tens of thousands of fish back this year alone.

    Does it make any sense then from anyone to argue that this catch is even measurable in the sport fisheries or has an impact on them or conservation? It does not.

    So why does the fist pounding and emotion not make much impact. Because it is emotion and not sound fishery management or fact based.

    Now look at the other facts. A population of over 250,000 people live close to these small west side Chinook systems and does anyone really think they can support that effort? Of course not, closures will take place on a regular schedule. Even the emergency order notes this as ADF&G is concerned displaced effort is causing over-harvest potential on streams that have surplus fish but just not enough because they are limited in their production.

    The message to the valley is take care of what you have and be prepared for more restrictions as you push development and growth in your area. The streams cannot handle the present growth and a complete closure of the commercial fishery is not going to make a difference - 1568 fish this year. Think about that.

  15. #15
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I read it and it still bugs me. From the confluence upstream, does that mean everything upstream from the point where the north bank of the Deshka and the east bank of the Su meet. OR does it include the Deshka. If it is the latter then it begs the question, WHY? Another obvious question is why not make it crystal clear, ADF&G must be lonely and want a bunch of phone calls.


    Quote Originally Posted by RustyMonkey View Post
    LuJon, here is the EO.



    STATEWIDE NEWS RELEASE
    ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME
    Denby S. Lloyd, Commissioner
    DIVISION OF SPORT FISH
    Charles O. Swanton, Director
    Contact: Sam Ivey, Assistant Area Management Biologist
    Palmer (907) 746-6300 Disclaimer


    Parks Highway Streams, Little Susitna River Closed to King Salmon Fishing; Talkeetna, Chulitna King Salmon Annual Limit reduced to One Beginning July 2
    JUNE 30, 2010
    PALMER, Alaska -- The Parks Highway streams in Unit 2 of the Susitna River drainage and the Little Susitna River are closed to fishing for king salmon effective at 11:00 p.m., Friday, July 2, through the remainder of the king salmon sport fishing season. Waters normally open to king salmon fishing in Unit 2 are now closed to all sport fishing; these waters include the lower sections of the Kashwitna River, and Willow, Little Willow, Greys, Caswell, Sheep, Montana, Goose, Sunshine, Birch, Trapper, and Rabideux creeks and all flowing waters of the Susitna River from the confluence with the Deshka River upstream to the confluence with the Talkeetna River.
    Little Susitna River anglers may continue to fish for species other than king salmon downstream of the Parks Highway bridge. Further, waters in Unit 2 normally closed to king salmon fishing throughout the year (upstream of the Parks Highway bridges or department markers, etc.) are not affected by this closure and anglers may continue to fish for trout and other species. Please refer to pages 26-28 of the Southcentral Alaska Sport Fishing Regulations Summary booklet for locations of boundary markers in these streams.
    A separate emergency order reduces the annual limit for king salmon in the Talkeetna and Chulitna River drainages in Units 5-6 of the Susitna River drainage from five fish to one fish effective at 11 p.m., Friday, July 2. Any king salmon recorded before Saturday, July 3, on the harvest portion of an Alaska sport fishing license or harvest record card does not count against the one king salmon that may be harvested after July 2. Even though fishing last weekend was much better than it has been the last couple of years at the mouths of Montana and Willow creeks, recent boat and foot surveys revealed low numbers of kings in traditional holding areas for this time of year. A helicopter survey of Eastside Susitna streams further substantiated far fewer fish than optimal for achieving escapement goals on several Parks Highway streams. Willow, Sheep, and Goose creeks have not met their escapement goals in the past three years. Given the close proximity to other Parks Highway streams, it is likely that a closure of the Parks Highway streams would transfer a significant amount of sport fishing effort to both the Talkeetna and Chulitna area and Little Susitna River. Any additional harvest associated with increased angler participation may jeopardize the likelihood of Talkeetna and Chulitna drainage streams and the Little Susitna River achieving their escapement goals this season.

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    Default Farmed fish may indeed be the answer

    I read in the paper the other day that a company has developed a genetically modified salmon that grows much faster, is sterile, and can be raised in ponds on land like catfish and shrimp.

    When it gets FDA approval these salmon will eliminate the danger to wild salmon populations and cause less polution in the ocean that the current wild caught salmon processing and farmed operations. These salmon should also be less expensive and give some real competition to wild caught fish. Shrimp and catfish farmed in the same manner have already captured around 95% of the market - farmed salmon will most likely follow shrimp's lead in capturing market share although there will always be a niche market for wild caught seafood.

    When wild caught salmon beome less competive in the market place perhaps the sportfishermen can finally gain a priority in management of Alaska's fisheries instead of being an after thought. Those of us in the Anchorage / Matsu area may not be able to catch all the kings we desire but we can at least fill our freezers with reds and silvers and reap some rewards from living here year round in the cold and darkness.

    The hatchery fish and their potential threat to the wild runs could also be eliminated along with the massive amounts of waste generated by commerical processing. Some commerical guys will undoubtably lose their part time jobs but that is life - most of us have been out of work at one time or another in our careers and we had full time jobs and were full time residents.

    Quote Originally Posted by salmon_bone View Post

    Maybe they should do away with comm fish and start fish farms. Wait then the comm fish would have to stay in Alaska, and deal with the cold and actually work all year
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  17. #17
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I bet that the value of wild salmon only goes up if this does in fact come to pass. I won't cry if it reduces hatchery production but I am quite comfortable that the wild salmon fishery is here to stay at least as long as the fish keep returning to the waters of their birth to breed and die.

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    Default way out in space???

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I read in the paper the other day that a company has developed a genetically modified salmon that grows much faster, is sterile, and can be raised in ponds on land like catfish and shrimp.

    When it gets FDA approval these salmon will eliminate the danger to wild salmon populations and cause less pollution in the ocean that the current wild caught salmon processing and farmed operations. These salmon should also be less expensive and give some real competition to wild caught fish. Shrimp and catfish farmed in the same manner have already captured around 95% of the market - farmed salmon will most likely follow shrimp's lead in capturing market share although there will always be a niche market for wild caught seafood.

    When wild caught salmon become less competitive in the market place perhaps the sportfishermen can finally gain a priority in management of Alaska's fisheries instead of being an after thought. Those of us in the Anchorage / Matsu area may not be able to catch all the kings we desire but we can at least fill our freezers with reds and silvers and reap some rewards from living here year round in the cold and darkness.

    The hatchery fish and their potential threat to the wild runs could also be eliminated along with the massive amounts of waste generated by commercial processing. Some commercial guys will undoubtedly lose their part time jobs but that is life - most of us have been out of work at one time or another in our careers and we had full time jobs and were full time residents.
    I read this tvfinak and just shake my head that you would want this to happen. It will lead to the demise of wild salmon stocks. A strong habitat protection program is needed in this development oriented state. We cannot afford to lose any user group in that battle with development that could care less about salmon. If what you say is true then a large segment of our population will be joining the development crowd if the only user group is sport fisherman. You will be by yourself and trust me in this state that means less wild fish habitat.

    Second, I cannot believe that you cannot read the backlash that is happening in this country on genetic altered critters.

    Everyone who values wild salmon should be concerned about how to maintain them and less on who catches them. Your post shows that self interests in a UCI environment that has hundreds of thousands of salmon harvested by sport fisherman is short sighted and short term. It is pretty sad.

  19. #19
    Member salmon_bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Everyone who values wild salmon should be concerned about how to maintain them and less on who catches them. Your post shows that self interests in a UCI environment that has hundreds of thousands of salmon harvested by sport fisherman is short sighted and short term. It is pretty sad.
    I don't want to start anything, but this probably will anyway, but with all the posts I have read, that you, Nerka, have written, is not anti sport, but super pro commercial. As a sport fisher women, obviously we are not going to see eye to eye, but saying
    self interests in a UCI environment that has hundreds of thousands of salmon harvested by sport fisherman
    is like sporties saying from what you wrote
    At 60,000 chinook the fisheries are sustainable. Also, you assume that these 60,000 fish are all going to make it back to their home streams. That is not going to happen
    Sustainable? Capable of being continued with minimal long-term effect on the environment. If sporties caught king salmon, when not in season, and they were dead by catch, we would be fined up the yoo hoo for just 1 fish and you think 60,000 by catch is sustainable?

  20. #20
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    Default not really.

    Salmon bone - I have been an avid sport fisherman all my life and I see the value of a viable commercial fishery. That does not make me super commercial - only when I see very anti-commercial comments I try to make rationale comments against that position.

    In Alaska alone 359,000 chinook were taken in the commercial salmon fisheries. So 60,000 fish is a sustainable harvest. Reducing it is more of an allocation issue in my opinion.

    Bushrat asked about the Yukon and I would agree that restrictions in the in-state fisheries and reduction of the by-catch would help meet the goals for Canada.

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