Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Why fouling shots are important

  1. #1
    Member Akheloce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Homer
    Posts
    1,135

    Default Why fouling shots are important

    (or a VERY dry bore)

    So based on advice from many, I started using Kroil in my bore cleaning regimen. While I thought that I had completely dried the bore on the last few patches, evidently that kroil is some slippery stuff.

    I took my Hawkeye 35 Whelen to the range after putting it in some new furniture- a Hogue overmolded full bedded stock to see if I could improve my groups. The first shot was 12" high! The next 4 made a nice 4 leaf clover on the bullseye.

    While happy with the results that the new stock gave (previously 4" groups), I'm very concerned about 1st shot accuracy since it's a hunting rifle. There will either no kroil in the future, or I'll shoot a fouling shot immediately before heading to the field.

    Coincidentally, my friend bought the same stock for his Rem 700 .308 and was shooting it for the 1st time on the same day. The Kroil had the same results as mine on his bore- about 10" high 1st shot. Also, the Hogue did not fit his Rem as smoothly as it fit my Ruger.... required a lot of fitting.

  2. #2
    Member BrentC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    (or a VERY dry bore)

    So based on advice from many, I started using Kroil in my bore cleaning regimen. While I thought that I had completely dried the bore on the last few patches, evidently that kroil is some slippery stuff.

    I took my Hawkeye 35 Whelen to the range after putting it in some new furniture- a Hogue overmolded full bedded stock to see if I could improve my groups. The first shot was 12" high! The next 4 made a nice 4 leaf clover on the bullseye.

    While happy with the results that the new stock gave (previously 4" groups), I'm very concerned about 1st shot accuracy since it's a hunting rifle. There will either no kroil in the future, or I'll shoot a fouling shot immediately before heading to the field.

    Coincidentally, my friend bought the same stock for his Rem 700 .308 and was shooting it for the 1st time on the same day. The Kroil had the same results as mine on his bore- about 10" high 1st shot. Also, the Hogue did not fit his Rem as smoothly as it fit my Ruger.... required a lot of fitting.
    I've never seen it that drastic, but yes there is a difference. I always hunt with a fouled bore.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Myt .Ruger .338WM (stainless steel) always shoots best with a clean barrel and cold barrel. The cleanest, the more accurate it is, and no idea why. In such conditions the first three shots will be around +1-1/2' to 2" over the center of the target at 100 yards. The first two bullets hit around 1/2" from each other if I do my part, the the third slightly to the left of center, around 3/4" to 1" away from the rest.

  4. #4
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    I'm very concerned about 1st shot accuracy since it's a hunting rifle. There will either no kroil in the future, or I'll shoot a fouling shot immediately before heading to the field.

    Clean your rifle to the best of your ability then shoot a couple of shots. Let it cool for about a half hour and shoot one shot, that's your kill shot. If it didn't hit where you intended adjust your scope and cool for another half hour. Fire one shot to verify your adjustment. If it's good your ready to go hunting.

    I like Kroil, I use it as a last patch after cleaning to store the rifle. When I get ready to shoot I run a dry patch or two down the barrel and all is good.

    When using a chronograph there is an increased velocity with the first shot in a clean barrel that has been dressed with Kroil. That should not cause your high issue. Perhaps your equipment settled after the first shot following installation.

  5. #5
    Member Akheloce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Homer
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    When using a chronograph there is an increased velocity with the first shot in a clean barrel that has been dressed with Kroil. That should not cause your high issue. Perhaps your equipment settled after the first shot following installation.

    Hmm Maybe the new stock settling was a significant part of that. Using kroil for the first time, and a new stock... too many variables to know for sure. While I normally chronograph every time when developing loads, I didn't bother this time, since I was shooting a known load which I'd chrony'd before.

  6. #6
    Member shphtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chugiak
    Posts
    1,376

    Default

    I always hunt with a fouled barrel. I just don't clean the barrel after the LAST range session I have just prior to hunting. In addition I usually buy brass in 100 round lots and sort it by weight. The one container of 20 rounds with the most mismatched weights I load up to use as fouling shots for range work.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In an easy chair in Cyberspace
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    I never shoot fouling shots...clean or dirty, old Blaser shoots the same

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    I never shoot fouling shots...clean or dirty, old Blaser shoots the same
    Now tell the truth, you just don't clean your rifle very often.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In an easy chair in Cyberspace
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seant View Post
    Now tell the truth, you just don't clean your rifle very often.
    OK ya outed me...and since Blasers are the easiest guns to clean ever made, that means I am lazy as well as sloppy

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    OK ya outed me...and since Blasers are the easiest guns to clean ever made, that means I am lazy as well as sloppy
    In my case, and so my hunting partners', we just have to clean our rifles every other day or so during our hunts. Sometimes it rains a lot where we hunt, while some other times it may be dry with a lot of dust getting in the action and barrel. Some other times it may be snow, or just mud. Since we spend a few days out there, we usually clean the rifles to make sure that we don't shoot mud or something out the barrels ahead of the bullet For field cleaning I use a BoreSnake, followed by a oil-soaked patch, which is then followed by a dry patch. I also clean the bold properly (to remove dust, mud, etc.), and then lubricate the lucking lugs.

    While I clean my rifle at least every other day before I get in my sleeping bag, my hunting partner sometimes cleans his every few days in between. I remember one time that it was raining and snowing, and his rifle was outside his tent. That day I picked his rifle to look at the chamber, and when I moved the bolt back a bunch of water drained out of it. It was real funny, too.

    Also, the fouling shots make no difference with my rifle. It just shoots straight and and a lot more accurately from a clean and cold barrel, so I know exactly where the first three bullets will hit in such conditions.

    But that's what works for me. What works for you also is the correct thing to do.

  11. #11
    Member Daveintheburbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    647

    Default

    Fouling shot and electric tape over the barrel works for me. No matter how many drying patches, first round from an absolutely clean barrel is up and left from one particular rifle.

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Thankfully I've never had my rifles show the clean/cold barrel tendency but others I know have it happen.

    It's weird about the tape over the barrel thing too...I also do it and have never seen the bullet be affected by it.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by railroadweasel View Post
    Thankfully I've never had my rifles show the clean/cold barrel tendency but others I know have it happen.

    It's weird about the tape over the barrel thing too...I also do it and have never seen the bullet be affected by it.
    I use mini-balloons (the ones used by kids to fill with water and hit each other during the summer), and they work fine.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    stuck at 7500' in CO for now
    Posts
    50

    Default Reality

    This is one of those questions that there is no right answer. It depends on what your barrel likes and does. Some will shoot the best clean. Some need to be dirty. Dirty can be 1 round or a dozen. Some will only go 5-20 rounds B4 they need to be cleaned, others will go hundreds of rounds B4 accuracy drops. You got to shoot them to find out. Preferably B4 you are in the field.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    stuck at 7500' in CO for now
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RayfromAK View Post
    Myt .Ruger .338WM (stainless steel) always shoots best with a clean barrel and cold barrel. The cleanest, the more accurate it is, and no idea why. In such conditions the first three shots will be around +1-1/2' to 2" over the center of the target at 100 yards. The first two bullets hit around 1/2" from each other if I do my part, the the third slightly to the left of center, around 3/4" to 1" away from the rest.
    Don't know anything about your gun. You may have a slight bedding problem.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carysguns View Post
    Don't know anything about your gun. You may have a slight bedding problem.
    No bedding problems with this one. It shoots straight from year to year, with over 12 moose-notches on its stock Why fixing what's not broken? Copper fouling on this gun causes a wider pattern at the range, and all I have to do is to thoroughly clean the rifling (squeaky clean) to take care of the problem.

    I remember years ago when at the range it was shooting a round but wide pattern not matter what I did. I thought that the problem was with the scope, since I had checked the stock and everything else. It was two days before moose season, so I was quite disappointed. Then I went home to get my checkbook to buy another scope, and remembered that I had a magazine article about accuracy problems and the steps to follow to correct them. Cleaning the rifling was one of the steps, so I decided to clean it step-by-step as written on the article. All the wet-brushing and swabs took forever, but when I shot it at the range taking careful aim, the first two shots printed about 1/2" or less from each other, and exactly 2" high above the center of the bullseye. I killed a moose on the first day of the season at 10:30 AM, with one shot through the heart/lungs at 200 yards (the 230-grain FS clipped the heart arteries on top of the heart, broke the shoulder bone, and exited). That was back in 1995 after retiring from the military. I still have the target for show and tell

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    stuck at 7500' in CO for now
    Posts
    50

    Default Looking for the wrong Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by RayfromAK View Post
    I killed a moose on the first day of the season at 10:30 AM, with one shot through the heart/lungs at 200 yards (the 230-grain FS clipped the heart arteries on top of the heart, broke the shoulder bone, and exited). That was back in 1995 after retiring from the military. I still have the target for show and tell
    Now I can see what my problem is: I have to find the Moose that have the targets on them

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,031

    Default protect your rifle while hunting

    Quote Originally Posted by RayfromAK View Post
    I use mini-balloons (the ones used by kids to fill with water and hit each other during the summer), and they work fine.
    I do too. In my younger and single days I also found that you could use your "protection" for this as well, as long as there's no lube on it.

    Though you'll have to tie a knot in the base to keep it on, unless your rifle's bore is bigger than.... uh... well.... your bore.

  19. #19
    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,941

    Default

    So how common do people think this first from a clean barrel high shot problem is? As far as I can tell, I have never had it occur, at least nothing like in the 10" high range. But it's possible I have overlooked something.

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    stuck at 7500' in CO for now
    Posts
    50

    Default Common problem clean V dirty

    The problem is more common than people believe. For some the accuracy of their rifle or their ability to shoot is such that the first shot, or two, or three form a pattern that they accept as "normal". The reality was the clean shot was "some" different than the others it just fell in an expected group size so wasn't noticed as different. Another mask would occur when sighting in. People will shoot 1 round then make a correction based on that location in relation to where they want to be on the target. They make a correction to change the point of impact. Upon the second shot the impact changed more than they expected so they think that they screwed up and then make another correction. After the third shot the "clean" barrel is now "dirty" (if you were cooking you would call it seasoned) and it proceeds to shoot as well as it and the shooter can for some period of time. On the flip side some barrels, for a lot of different reasons, are more accurate clean. As the metal and powder residue build in the irregularities in the barrel it effects the accuracy.

    Go to http://www.snipercountry.com/article...breakin_II.asp to see what people do to good barrels from the get go. Not quite on topic but an example of what might cause a difference between clean V dirty.

    My solution, like shphtr, having several rifles that do different things and never remembering which one does what, is to never take a "clean barrel" into the field. I sight in before I leave and do not clean after the session. That way I don't have to remember what the barrel does clean or dirty. I know what it did at the range and for some number of rounds after it should do the same thing. If the barrel needs attention in the field then I fire 1 or 2 rounds to re-season back to hopefully were it was. Obviously one can't fire in all situations in the field that's when it helps to have a better memory. Also there is a difference in cleaning. It is one thing to push a patch full of WD-40 through the bore to keep it from rusting and another to take a stiff brush with some of the aggressive cleaners available today trying to remove the lands from the bore.

    I would think that in Akheloce's situation a new stock was as much or more of a "problem" as clean V dirty. We need to know what it did on a return trip to the range clean after the action had time to mate to the action under recoil. Also clean V dirty.

    Clean V dirty is not a problem. It is part of owning a tool that has variables you have to account for.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •