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Thread: Dip a King

  1. #1
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    Default Dip a King

    Don't forget to let the kings loose this year folks in the Kenai! Make the commitment to be a steward of the stock and help out with letting them flourish again.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Back Country Robb View Post
    Don't forget to let the kings loose this year folks in the Kenai! Make the commitment to be a steward of the stock and help out with letting them flourish again.
    Man that's gonna be hard to do but you have me thinking. I'm going to have to consider this. Maybe we just won't get one and the temptation won't be there.
    Hike faster. I hear banjo music.

  3. #3
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Default

    As it appears to me this years King run was just late and the numbers are now there where they want them to be.
    We all have a conscious decision to make about wether we will keep a king or not.
    Being the numbers show the king run to be there in suficient numbers to allow sport harvest and the use of bait while sportfishing I for one will be keeping my one King if the fish gods grace me with another one in my net this year.
    Being the early russian river counts are still too low to meet the escapement goals might we all consider releasing the reds just in case they are early run Russian River fish?
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  4. #4
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    Default

    i'll do my part
    i'm keeping a rainbow &/or dolly instead

  5. #5
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    Default Still No King

    I urge all of you that, even though the BEG is being met, that we all participate in the preservation and increase in the stock of Kings by releasing dipped Chinooks. Although I appreciate the stigma of fetching a king out of a dipnet (I've had some decent ones too), I will be, and hope that the rest of you, will release them if they are not mortally wounded. We need to consider that we are not the owners of the resource, but borrowing it from our children.

    Thanks to all that will participate and for those that don't; I wish you the best of luck and hope that the kings you get are not the monster breeders.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

  6. #6

    Default 2 Runs, right

    You know the Kenai River is managed for an early and late Chinook Run, right? The thought was, and to some still is, that the early run was a bit thin this year, regardless of ADFG counts.

    The management for the 2nd run begins on July 1st. I haven't heard that the 2nd run is weak or that there is even a concern. Do you think there is a biological concern for the harvest of Kenai's 2nd run of kings? Why should dippers not keep 'em when all other user groups do?

  7. #7
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    Default One word

    Conservation!

    The runs have been on a decline and each year we see lower return numbers (albeit incremental) and when you ride the edge of minimum escapement for so long you are bound to have negative impact on on the stock.

    Why do you think no one has been able to come close to or break Les Anderson's world record? The other user groups that are profit based like the guides assault the Kenai Kings relentlessly. I'm not saying they are bad or we are good; I'm saying that since that particular user group is specifically targeting them and PU (myself included) are specifically targeting reds for the second runs, we should make every effort to balance the pressure on the stocks.

    If you do keep a Kenai King, IMO you are not a bad person; just one that is choosing to not participate in the conservation efforts some of us are practicing.

    It is an old indian saying that we did not inherit this earth from our parents, but borrowing it from our children.

    That being said, from my perspective, that we should be making every effort to conserve when we get the opportunity and those rewards will end up in our future generations hands.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

  8. #8

    Default Early Run

    BCR -

    I'd agree with everything you're saying if applied to the early run. However, the late run is not in the same shape. If I land a monster and it doesn't get gilled, I'll join you and let it go. Hopefully it will have a chance, but its far from passing on its genes, given what its got to dodge next. But something up to 50lbs better figure out how to get away on its own, cause it's headed for the smoker

  9. #9
    Member TR's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm on the fence on this one. I don't particularly favor kings but I too would like to try a big one in the smoker. Further, it's so rare for dippers to catch kings in the first place, I can't imagine a self imposed moritorium is going to have any impact.

  10. #10

    Default Good Thinking?

    Yeh, that's it, all of us in the 100% resident PU fishery can volunteer to let the kings go so that the non-resident guided anglers can catch them. Remember, 60-70% of the sport caught Kings in July's 2nd run are caught and kept by guided clients, of which 80-90% are non-resident. Good thinking. The 2nd run is forecasted to be well within ther goals and is much larger than the 1st run. There is no biological issue here it's just a matter of which user group wants more opportunity than the other - your choice. Personally, I rarely catch a king pu fishing so if I do it's in the freezer.

  11. #11
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default Put it this way...

    If the Soldotna/Kenai AC has it's way, it won't be up to you to keeep/not keep a King in the Kenai. They voted last season to put this before the BOF this year, to make it law that there will not be any retention of Kings, period, to dippers. Allocating fish from one user group, totally over to another.
    Sure hope all of you guys are planning on attending the BOF meetings next year!!!! We need more people involved!!!!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  12. #12
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Default Kings in my Dipnet.

    Last year we had three kings in our boat while dipping. Biggest was @ 15#
    And yes we kept them as it was legal and they grilled and smoked up real nicely..
    3 years ago I lost 2 really nice ones that got away due to inferior nets. This problem I have since fixed with a trip to Mikes welding in sterling.
    I gotta agree with what others have posted about the second run of kings being healthy and letting one go to get hooked upriver.
    Probably let one over 50# go though.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  13. #13
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default I am of the opposing camp

    I take BC Robb on the boat dipping but this is where I disagree with him. I don't fish the Kenai for kings nor do I even wet a line for Kings up here in the Valley anymore. Way too crowded at both places to swing a pole, IMO. So if I get one dipping, I just feel that the one King a year I take does not diminish the second run on the Kenai or anywhere else. If I gladly keep a Kenai King, I would be the first to say, put it onto the back of your fishing license, towards your yearly total.
    If there was a biological concern with the second run, I would be screaming to not have retention in the dipnet fishery but maybe I'm just in the minority.
    For the record, when the first King run on the Kenai was lagging, I e-mailed Jeff Fox, commercial fisheries bio. and told him if he had to close the King fishery down, on the PU fishery, because of a biological concern, I would be the first to defend him on his actions and those of sportfish too.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  14. #14
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    Default

    I would be worried about the residents and non-residents dipping 3 and 4 times the limit on the Kenai before I worried about the kings.

    See it every year. Group of people either dipping either local or from outside. The non residents usually can them and ship them back home to sell in order to pay for the trip. Residents just run the fish home and come back for more.

    I counted fish one group was taking and it totaled 109 fish. Later I casually asked what their family limit was and they said 45.

    By the time fish and game shows up they are long gone.

    I gave up on the Kenai circus some years ago and switched to the Kasilof. Less crowded and fewer violations witnessed.
    Just a bitter Alaskan clinging to his guns and religion.....

  15. #15
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default bilder, you claim to see violations... Well

    Get a license plate or something!!! What you just previousely posted sounded like gossip or something. I hear these claims every year but everyone always claim LEO's were just too late, or some other excuse.
    People, if you see a violation and don't like it or not, report it!!
    But don't pass it on as gospel and call it good. Gossip and violations don't go together. It becomes an urban legend when you repeat it often enough.
    Some people would take this as the gospel truth and then carry on this myth that has been circulating for years. It has also been applied to people fishing the Kenai by fishing rod and camping the whole summer to boot. Selling the fish and paying for their vacation to boot.
    Show me a citation or a 911 log showing you called and I will believe it. Other than that, inflammatory statements don't carry much water in my book.
    The last I checked, there was 700 undercover hours directed towards the dipnet fishery, last year. Nothing posted about double dippers/ AKA seinfeild,, posted on the police report. Guys, get a life and stop the gossip on dipnetting. One percent of all fishers, Com, Sport and Pu are not up to par. Why pick on one sector when all of them have bad apples Done with my rant.... carry on
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  16. #16
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    I take BC Robb on the boat dipping but this is where I disagree with him. I don't fish the Kenai for kings nor do I even wet a line for Kings up here in the Valley anymore. Way too crowded at both places to swing a pole, IMO. So if I get one dipping, I just feel that the one King a year I take does not diminish the second run on the Kenai or anywhere else. If I gladly keep a Kenai King, I would be the first to say, put it onto the back of your fishing license, towards your yearly total.
    If there was a biological concern with the second run, I would be screaming to not have retention in the dipnet fishery but maybe I'm just in the minority.
    For the record, when the first King run on the Kenai was lagging, I e-mailed Jeff Fox, commercial fisheries bio. and told him if he had to close the King fishery down, on the PU fishery, because of a biological concern, I would be the first to defend him on his actions and those of sportfish too.
    I agree w/ the whop. Whatever is caught in legal fishing gear is yours. Anybody that has the audacity to release a fish after handling is guilty of wanton waste (IMO). Its just pompous to instruct others to release their fish. Catch and release kills thats a fact.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    Catch and release kills thats a fact.
    So does keeping fish... Actually, there is a higher percentage of fish mortality when keeping fish than when gently releasing them.

  18. #18
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    Default right thought but bad idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Back Country Robb View Post
    Don't forget to let the kings loose this year folks in the Kenai! Make the commitment to be a steward of the stock and help out with letting them flourish again.
    Back Country Robb, I think your heart is in the right spot but your fishery management approach is a bad idea.

    Goals are set on these stocks and therefore conservation is in meeting the goals and getting good distribution of spawners - no matter what run.

    Giving up a harvest for conservation is a fine idea if it is needed. But it is not needed for late run Chinook and early run Chinook have a host issues that need looking at - but the PU harvest is not a main one.

    For example the harvest of mainstream spawners in the early run, the distribution of tributary spawners in the early run, and the error in the sonar counters all need discussion. Giving up a harvest in the PU fishery and reallocating it to other user groups is not conservation.

    The truth of this issue is that guides want more Chinook salmon for their clients and thus the Kenai AC proposal. I would not support your plan on conservation reasons unless you can show me how the other user groups are also participating in conservation and that it is needed to solve some of the issues I pointed out.

    I would hope your comment about being a steward of the stock does not imply that those of us who disagree are not stewards of the resource.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKGrayling View Post
    So does keeping fish... Actually, there is a higher percentage of fish mortality when keeping fish than when gently releasing them.
    Now hold on, who poisoned your mind with such blasphemous lies? Do you have any proof? Please refrain from saying things unless you have the info to back it up! (Same goes for fullbush)

  20. #20

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    Dude, you got me... Never did any double blind studies to find if this were true or not, obviously the statement is flawed... I really should have studied this before making the post, so i would have info to back up my statement. I just didn't realize there would be someone smart enough to realize the flaw and call me on it. Good job Char, you got me.

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