Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: 284 win.

  1. #1
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    3,826

    Default 284 win.

    Looking at buying a Winchester 88 lever action. 284 cal. Is commercial ammo still available?
    After looking over gunbroker and gunsamerica, it seems these 88s are appreciating in value. I'm actually buying it (if I do) as a gun for a 10 yr old daughter to use.
    Anyone really like or hate using an 88?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  2. #2
    Member gunbugs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    1,099

    Default

    88's are one of my favorite rifles. They were ahead of their time. The one weak point is the stock, somewhat easy to crack/break at the magazine well because they are so thin. I've got 7 M-88's in the safe and most shoot VERY well for 40 year old lever actions. Usually when I get a new one I strip the action and clean it as they usually have old, gummy oil in them that makes the action sluggish. If you've never done this to an 88 before, then have a good disassembly manual in front of you, and have your slave pins already cut. That will make the task possible. The 284 is a great cartridge but ammo is produced only by Winchester on a "seasonal" basis. That means once every 2 or 3 years they make a run. So if you see it on the shelf or at a show, BUY IT, don't say to yourself, "I'll get some later". It won't be there "later". Or get a wad of brass and screw it together yourself. Good luck!
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

  3. #3

    Default

    I agree with Gunbugs. Both the 284 and the 88 are dandies. My 88's happen to be a 358 and a 308, but I've got the 284 in Savage 99 and a custom bolt, so I know my way around both fairly well. Good advice on the 88 cleaning and GREAT advice on the manual, and especially the slave pins.

    And yeah, pick up the ammo when you see it, but plan on reloading both for supply and for economy. I've still got 22 boxes of the old yellow-box winchester and another 10 or so of the white that came with my 99, but I shoot handloads almost exclusively.

    Depending on your daughter though, 10 years might be a little small for the LOP, if not the recoil. My 10-year old granddaughter is head and shoulders taller than most kids her age (mom is 6' and dat is 6'1"), but she's still too short for my guns. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't like the recoil and noise of full factory loads, either.

    I'd be tempted to pick up the 88 and hang onto it for your daughter, but in the meantime find her a youth model of some sort in 7-08, then feed it light handloads for a few years. If she really takes to shooting and hunting, the 88 will be a dandy "step up" for her, and if not, you'll still have a dandy in your safe for your own use.

  4. #4
    Member Big Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Palmer,Alaska
    Posts
    1,737

    Default

    Model 88 in .284 are like hens teeth, I have been looking for a nice pre-64 for many years and do like this rifle, I well remember a buddy that used to take his dad's along on are coyote hunts and that's were I learned what a delightful rifle his was. I sure would be reluctant to give the rifle away as a gift. Nice find by the way.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    3,826

    Default

    Cool, thanks for the replies. I haven't even looked at the gun yet, but have considered it's value for adults and as a "collector". Asking price for this 88, a pre 64, is 950. So far, my research shows this to be about in line with similiar 88s.
    Have been online shopping for a 7mm-08 also. So, BrownBear, recoil on the 7mm is noticeably less?
    I see alot of "youth" rifles available with shorter LOPs, but will a lighter 7mm-08 still kick pretty good.
    Have been checking out NEF Handi-rifles in the 7mm for the girl also, but worry the lighter gun will still have a good kick.
    Any thoughts?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    6,657

    Default

    Great gun with a great round you can't go wrong with that one.Buy a few spare mags when you see them. If the checkering is still real nice the extra for pre-64 is worth it. The only difference between pre and after is the checkering.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Cool, thanks for the replies. I haven't even looked at the gun yet, but have considered it's value for adults and as a "collector". Asking price for this 88, a pre 64, is 950. So far, my research shows this to be about in line with similiar 88s.
    Have been online shopping for a 7mm-08 also. So, BrownBear, recoil on the 7mm is noticeably less?
    I see alot of "youth" rifles available with shorter LOPs, but will a lighter 7mm-08 still kick pretty good.
    Have been checking out NEF Handi-rifles in the 7mm for the girl also, but worry the lighter gun will still have a good kick.
    Any thoughts?
    If you don't pick it up for 950, there's a long line of guys right behind you, many from this site.

    I notice a small difference in recoil between the 7-08 and 284. Though neither is objectionable to an adult, it's right at the line for a smallish kid under 15 or 16. I'm basing that on my own two daughters and wife, all of whom objected to 7x57 loaded to similar ballistics when they first started out. After a couple of years of reduced loads they never even noticed when I upped the velocities. I'm betting a lighter 7-08 with factory equivalent loads would recoil along the same lines as that 88/284, so all you'd be gaining is a shorter stock if you didn't handload.

    I'm here to tell you that a 139/140 grain bullet at 2500 fps knocks the snot out of deer even as it's gentle on the shoulder. And a 154/160 at the same velocity would be fine for moose. For learning and pure fun shooting reload some 100-120 grain bullets to about 2000-2200. After your daughter has shot that load, be prepared to buy a whole lot of components and spend many, many hours at the reloading bench. Best defense is to interest her in reloading her own!

  8. #8
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,336

    Default

    I guess I'll be the lone voice in suggesting the Model 88 is at best an "okay" rifle. They are a tad on the heavy side for a short action rifle. The factory triggers IME (handling and firing several dozen of these rifles) are well short of satisfactory. GB mentioned the stocks are prone to cracking (at the magazine well and around the tang on the early models) in addition to having a comb that is a bit too low for a scope. IMO this accentuates recoil as well, not to mention the fancy plastic butt plate (or is that hard rubber) that came standard on the 88. The guns OAL is a couple inches more than a bolt action rifle with a similar barrel. Most of these things can be remedied, but I think these are among the reasons the 88 (& 100 for that matter) was discontinued. To its credit the 88 is a very slick operating action and I've never experienced any type of feeding problem with mine though I've been limited to 308 and 243 rifles. If a person must have a lever gun in a 284 then the 88 is as good of a choice as any, but in reality it is a bolt action rifle that operates with a lever--a hybrid if you will. The price (950) seems well on the cheap side for a 284 IMO. FWIW I went through a phase where I couldn't be satisfied without an 88 so I tried several. All were "okay" hunting rifles and produced acceptable hunting accuracy, but I sold my last 88, a '56 vintage rifle in 308, a few years ago and can say I've never missed that rifle.

    The 284 is a great cartridge. For all practical purposes it is everything a 270 Win or 280 Rem is and it can fit in a shorter action--what's not to like?

  9. #9
    Member Brian Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    931

    Default WIN 88 Looser for Alaska

    I would caution getting a Winchester Model 88 for hunting Alaska.

    While they are seaming to go up in price... for example... Sold my pristine .308 WIN limited carbine w/ factory installed peeps and select wood for 3x what it retailed. This rifle was reasonably accurate, handy,with a high luster blue and very nice wood. I liked the 'idea' of having one - but it was not a good choice for hunting ALASKA.

    Why not for Alaska and reason for sendin' 'er down the road? It was not much about $$$.

    Firsthand and foremost --- dis-assembly and re-assembly. A truly terrible design if anything should occur in the field!!! Far and away too many of the 'guts' are dependent on the same captive pinning under spring tension. It will almost require good workshop, good lighting, wish you had a third hand, and this is one gun that will test your patience... sequencing it back together properly/functionally.

    I did like the gun as a shooter and had some fun... would never want to trust 'er on on any demanding conditions Alaska hunt. Thorough, routine take-down and cleaning on this rifle is realistically not a good option.
    Brian Richardson

  10. #10
    Member gunbugs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    1,099

    Default

    There are, according to Winchester production records, around 35,000 M-88s in 284 alone. Total rifles and carbines of all types, 283,000. Makes a person wonder why they go for as much as they do. However, I always take into consideration what a comparably made rifle would sell for today. So, I guess 900 to 1200 for a nice 284 88 seems reasonable. I've got a post 64 284 that shoots well enough, not a tack driver, but I've not spent much time working up loads either. Recoil in full house 150gr loads is a bit sharp, but it is pretty snappy downrange as well. If it is kept clean, an 88 won't give you any trouble in the field. I've had many 88's apart, and they are no worse than any other Winchester lever gun as far as complexity. Actually, once you've done it once or twice, its no big deal. If you like the gun, buy it, shoot it, and enjoy it. Just DON'T CUT THE STOCK. There's plenty out there that have already had that done to them.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

  11. #11

    Default

    If you look for Wisconsin Cartridge Company on the net- they load a 140 grain at +\- 2850 for around 30 bucks a box.
    I haven't heard anything good or bad about them, but it seems the price is worth the brass in itself. I'm jealous of the 88 in 284. Wanted one for years....

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Richardson View Post
    I would caution getting a Winchester Model 88 for hunting Alaska.

    While they are seaming to go up in price... for example... Sold my pristine .308 WIN limited carbine w/ factory installed peeps and select wood for 3x what it retailed. This rifle was reasonably accurate, handy,with a high luster blue and very nice wood. I liked the 'idea' of having one - but it was not a good choice for hunting ALASKA.

    Why not for Alaska and reason for sendin' 'er down the road? It was not much about $$$.

    Firsthand and foremost --- dis-assembly and re-assembly. A truly terrible design if anything should occur in the field!!! Far and away too many of the 'guts' are dependent on the same captive pinning under spring tension. It will almost require good workshop, good lighting, wish you had a third hand, and this is one gun that will test your patience... sequencing it back together properly/functionally.

    I did like the gun as a shooter and had some fun... would never want to trust 'er on on any demanding conditions Alaska hunt. Thorough, routine take-down and cleaning on this rifle is realistically not a good option.
    Interesting (and valid) points you raise, Brian. While my 88's aren't 284, my Savage 99 in 284 provides pretty fair grounds for comparison of the actions while tossing in observations about the cal in a "handy" lever. The Savage is certainly less troublesome in the field, and "hurkier" all over. I like the shorter throw of the 88, but I wouldn't subject one to the thrashing I give 99's.

    As for the caliber in a lever, I have to differ a little, however. It's just dandy having a gun that handles so fast and so well for the short, quick shooting required in tight cover, yet really reaches out once you move back into the open country. My 99/284 is the only 99 I've ever felt justified in scoping, and the 1.5x5 Leupold is just about perfect for a rifle that needs to do both jobs. Mine "only" shoots 1.5" groups with either factory loads or handloads, but that's perfectly fine for me out to well over 300 yards. It's great to be able to open the scope up to 1.5x and hunt close, then swing it to 5x or so when a long shot presents itself. DRT in either case.

  13. #13
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    3,826

    Default

    Just called and said "I'll take it". Comes with one box of shells. Probably put it in the closet, but maybe later will take it to the range.
    Gun looked good. One scatch on stock. Paying the 950 as that appears reasonable.
    Unfortunately, now I can't buy any guns at the gun show I go to in the lower 48 this summer. Haha!

    So BBear.........what should I look for in a youth rifle? I see "youth" rifles from several manufaturers. Are they really small enough for a 80 pound, 10 yr old girl to shoot comfortable?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  14. #14

    Default

    I can't remember whether it was the Remington Model 7 or another (gettin old, ya know) that comes with two stocks- a shortie and a standard so you can switch out as a kid grows. That takes care of my biggest concern with kids even from a rest- length of pull. You either have to hack a stock while they're young and replace the hack later, or simply restock. But too long LOP really raises cob with their shooting.

    The second thing I really like about the Model 7 solves another issue for kids- It's not muzzle-heavy, so they simply handle and shoot it better.

    I'd sure look into reloading too, if you're not already doing it. While a 243 kicks less than a 7-08 and gets lots of play as a starter caliber for kids, it suffers as the size of the game goes up. Handloaded 120 grain bullets @ 2500 don't kick any more than a 243, yet they're still plenty for deer and I bet even for caribou. Grow the kid a little and put a moose in front of her, and a full-power load in the same 7-08 has it all over the 243.

    My 10-year old granddaughter can't yet hit a barn from the inside shooting offhand, but that will come. From any kind of rest, even sitting and using her knees for a prop, she's lethal. I'd hunt with her in a minute, but look for situations that let us settle in with a rest, especially if the game would come to us. Can't seem to convince her yet that shooting Bambi is something she'd want to do, much as she loves to shoot and mows through the venison I put on the table.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post

    So BBear.........what should I look for in a youth rifle? I see "youth" rifles from several manufaturers. Are they really small enough for a 80 pound, 10 yr old girl to shoot comfortable?
    I think the Marlin XS7Y in .243 or 7mm-08 is an excellent starter/value rifle. For a ten yr old, I would use a .22 for a few years so recoil doesn't become a mental stigma.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •