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Thread: Time to put an "annual limit" on guides?

  1. #1
    Member mudbuddy's Avatar
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    Default Time to put an "annual limit" on guides?

    Individual fishermen are allowed to catch 5 kings.
    Guides are allowed to catch unlimited kings.

    Is it time to put an annual limit on the fish caught by guides.

    Very tough subject.
    The guide does not catch the fish but "Greatly enable" their clients to be ale to be successful. A guide can go to the Deska with 5 clients & limit out, with 5 everyday the season is open. Say they make 2 trips a day. that's 10 fish per day. Lets say it is done for a month (30 days), that's 300 fish. Is that a good number to say that after 300 fish, no more guiding by that guide (then can that guide go guide on the Kenai, Lake creek?)

    That would be punishing a good guide. Guide outfits could just hire more guides & never quite let any of them max out. Several ways to beat that type of system.

    What about a max number guide are allowed to catch on a specific river system. Say the guide are allowed 1000 kings on the Deshka, when guide services have caught their alloted 1000, no more guiding to the Deshka for anyone. The good guide will catch the majority of the 1000 fish allotted.
    This is similar to how commercial fishermen (Halibut, crab, herring etc) are regulated, some have a quota & the entire fishery has a max allowed to be caught.

    Limit the days guides are allowed to fish to say Tues., Wed & Thur.
    (Less crowded for the extended weekends.)

    An individual fisherman can catch 5 for the entire year over the Cook Inlet area, & then not allowed to fish for kings anywhere.
    Some improvement is definitely needed on this one, IMO

    It seems the current system is biased toward commercial fishing 1st, guide outfits 2nd & individual fishermen 3rd. Maybe that's how it should be, maybe not. Is it money spent on lobbying F&G that decide the rules.

    How much of the money made by the guides is taxed or retrieved by the State of Ak?? Should a % be??

    Same true , how much of the commercial fish caught is taxed by the state??
    Should a % be??

    I'm taxed $10 before I even catch a king. Only allowed 5. Thats a $2 tax per fish if I catch 5.

    40% tax on sports caught kings. None on commercial & guide aided caught kings.

    Thoughts:

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudbuddy View Post
    Individual fishermen are allowed to catch 5 kings.
    Guides are allowed to catch unlimited kings.
    Thanks for informing me! I'm going to run down to ADF&G and pay my $50 for a guide license so I don't have a sport fish limit anymore.

  3. #3
    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    Default

    I don't agree with a guide having a limit of fish he is allowed to catch, what I would like to see though is a limited number of guides, there are simply too many of them IMO. Do the same as with commercial fishing, there are a certain number of guide liscences available, and if a person wants to get into guiding, then he must by the liscence from someone that has one for sale, or he can lease it. It is simply to crowded on the rivers.

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    you sound rediculious, how bout we just outlaw guides, really thats what your proposing. if there is a limit than there is no money in it. No money in it, not worth doing. Yea thats all fine for Alaskan fisherman, but how much money would we lose without the tourist? Go ahead think this state could survive without tourism....
    I Wish i could change my name to Shimano, because i recently started hating Ambassdor Abu_Garcia.

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    I disagree Garcia. Limit the resource and the value would increase, not decrease. He's not suggesting outlawing guides and I think we all know that can never happen. I don't know about the Deshka, but there should be guide restrictions on the Kenai. I'm not real happy about having to buy a four stroke engine to run Kenai & Skilak Lake 3-4 times a year because 400 guides pollute the Kenai River operating non-stop, 14 hours a day on the river. Residents use the river, but not every day, all season long.

    Tim

  6. #6
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    ...there are simply too many of them IMO. Do the same as with commercial fishing, there are a certain number of guide liscences available, and if a person wants to get into guiding, then he must by the liscence from someone that has one for sale, or he can lease it. It is simply to crowded on the rivers.
    Pretty much my sentiments. But 50 or 500 guides, it's still pimping the river.
    As "Old Duck Hunter" suggested in the latest Redoubt Reporter: though I live near the river, I won't fish her when the zoo is in session (June-mid August).

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    I disagree Garcia. Limit the resource and the value would increase, not decrease.
    Tim
    In Theory, But not reality. Think about this, If you make a limit where only about half the people can fish you are essentially doubling the price. What’s the average price right now for a seat on the Kenai? $300 for a full day? well if you double that, that brings the price to $600.
    Now that into consideration you are targeting mainly people from the lower 48, the have several options when it comes to exotic/exclusive fishing. For one you have Hawaii, Washington/Oregon, Offshore Southern Cal, Mexico, Canada, and well use to be the Gulf, and the lower East Cost (Georgia and outer banks).
    Every one of those places are already cheaper. With doubling the price, why would they pay double the price to come to Ak and catch ONE king when they can go to Hawaii and catch 2 marlin for HALF the price!

    The point is, raising the price would either make it not worth your while to be a guide or it would cause the tourism to go somewhere else.
    I Wish i could change my name to Shimano, because i recently started hating Ambassdor Abu_Garcia.

  8. #8
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default And that is the frustrating dilemma ...

    ... between being a sportsman who loves (loved) the wildness of Alaska and being pro-free enterprise. Part of me believes in development which means more people, but the other part of me wants conservation of what we have with fewer people who need their hand held and their noses wiped in order to enjoy it.

    My gut reaction is: let them go catch marlin. And maybe Hawaii needs more guides too.

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    Mudbuddy, I will agree with you on one thing,

    Im not from Kenia and of coarse i don't understand how crowded it really is, but the idea of a "local day" say for instance on saturday, would seem to be a good idea. a day where only alaska state residents are allowed to fish.
    I Wish i could change my name to Shimano, because i recently started hating Ambassdor Abu_Garcia.

  10. #10

    Wink

    Any boat sporting a Guide Decal or Charter Decal should only be allowed on the water, Tuesday thru Thursday, statewide. No If's No But's
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Any boat sporting a Guide Decal or Charter Decal should only be allowed on the water, Tuesday thru Thursday, statewide. No If's No But's
    Yea, that will never happen.
    I Wish i could change my name to Shimano, because i recently started hating Ambassdor Abu_Garcia.

  12. #12
    Member salmon_bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudbuddy View Post
    Individual fishermen are allowed to catch 5 kings.
    Guides are allowed to catch unlimited kings.

    Is it time to put an annual limit on the fish caught by guides.

    Very tough subject.
    The guide does not catch the fish but "Greatly enable" their clients to be ale to be successful. A guide can go to the Deska with 5 clients & limit out, with 5 everyday the season is open. Say they make 2 trips a day. that's 10 fish per day. Lets say it is done for a month (30 days), that's 300 fish. Is that a good number to say that after 300 fish, no more guiding by that guide (then can that guide go guide on the Kenai, Lake creek?)

    That would be punishing a good guide. Guide outfits could just hire more guides & never quite let any of them max out. Several ways to beat that type of system.

    What about a max number guide are allowed to catch on a specific river system. Say the guide are allowed 1000 kings on the Deshka, when guide services have caught their alloted 1000, no more guiding to the Deshka for anyone. The good guide will catch the majority of the 1000 fish allotted.
    This is similar to how commercial fishermen (Halibut, crab, herring etc) are regulated, some have a quota & the entire fishery has a max allowed to be caught.

    Limit the days guides are allowed to fish to say Tues., Wed & Thur.
    (Less crowded for the extended weekends.)

    An individual fisherman can catch 5 for the entire year over the Cook Inlet area, & then not allowed to fish for kings anywhere.
    Some improvement is definitely needed on this one, IMO

    It seems the current system is biased toward commercial fishing 1st, guide outfits 2nd & individual fishermen 3rd. Maybe that's how it should be, maybe not. Is it money spent on lobbying F&G that decide the rules.

    How much of the money made by the guides is taxed or retrieved by the State of Ak?? Should a % be??

    Same true , how much of the commercial fish caught is taxed by the state??
    Should a % be??

    I'm taxed $10 before I even catch a king. Only allowed 5. Thats a $2 tax per fish if I catch 5.

    40% tax on sports caught kings. None on commercial & guide aided caught kings.

    Thoughts:
    Instead of giving a guide a limit of fish caught per river, why not just ban the so-called "ALASKA FISHING GUIDE BUSINESS OWNERS" that are not residence of Alaska. I know the out of state guide business owners spend money here, but the majority of their revenue is taken out of state.
    And if a resident Guide business owner decides to hire an out of state guide, there is a steeper fee for a non resident guide license. Keep it in Alaska. If you are a true "ALASKA FISHING GUIDE" then you should be an ALASKA RESIDENT. Don't limit the number of fish a guide can put his/her clients on, limit the rivers to only resident guides.
    The reason I say this is cause there are many guides who live in Washington, Oregon, California etc..... that claim to be "AN ALASKA FISHING GUIDE" not "A GUIDE WHO FISHES IN ALASKA".

  13. #13

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu_Garcia View Post
    Yea, that will never happen.
    It certainly could, if enough of us wanted it to.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Any boat sporting a Guide Decal or Charter Decal should only be allowed on the water, Tuesday thru Thursday, statewide. No If's No But's
    Sooo.... lets say I have a brother that is a guide in Alaska and I go up to fish with him ("unguided" of course I am not paying my brother to fish with him as he does not pay me when he comes to the lower 48 to hunt antelope with me!).

    We would not be able to take his guide boat on the water on a Tues., Wed. or Thurs. to fish?

    ClearCreek

  15. #15

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ClearCreek View Post
    Sooo.... lets say I have a brother that is a guide in Alaska and I go up to fish with him ("unguided" of course I am not paying my brother to fish with him as he does not pay me when he comes to the lower 48 to hunt antelope with me!).

    We would not be able to take his guide boat on the water on a Tues., Wed. or Thurs. to fish?

    ClearCreek
    You'd be suprised how many "brother(s)" these guides have. Yes, to enforce it correctly, they would have to stay off the water. PERIOD.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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    Quote Originally Posted by salmon_bone View Post
    Instead of giving a guide a limit of fish caught per river, why not just ban the so-called "ALASKA FISHING GUIDE BUSINESS OWNERS" that are not residence of Alaska. I know the out of state guide business owners spend money here, but the majority of their revenue is taken out of state.
    And if a resident Guide business owner decides to hire an out of state guide, there is a steeper fee for a non resident guide license. Keep it in Alaska. If you are a true "ALASKA FISHING GUIDE" then you should be an ALASKA RESIDENT. Don't limit the number of fish a guide can put his/her clients on, limit the rivers to only resident guides.
    The reason I say this is cause there are many guides who live in Washington, Oregon, California etc..... that claim to be "AN ALASKA FISHING GUIDE" not "A GUIDE WHO FISHES IN ALASKA".
    Nice idea but the last time I checked the constitution, and the Interstate Commerce Commission, did not allow us to ban anyone from another state from starting and conducting a business in ours. It is also almost impossible to earn a living as an Alaskan guide....most of the guides I know are school teachers, carpenters, city workers or travel to many other rivers and even other countries to be able to work.

  17. #17
    Member muskeg's Avatar
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    Default S se

    Down here in S SE non-residents are now limited to 2 Rockfish per day .... and only one of those can be Yelloweye .. with an anual limit of two Yelloweye. And all rockfish caught must be kept (no matter what size).

    One Halibut per day for the non-res.

    You can only have the amount of rods in the water that you have clients onboard. Crew may not retain fish when they have paying clients onboard.

    Slot limit for Ling Cod for the non-res. One per day 2 annual limit.

    I'd call that pretty restrictive.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gusdog44 View Post
    Nice idea but the last time I checked the constitution, and the Interstate Commerce Commission, did not allow us to ban anyone from another state from starting and conducting a business in ours. It is also almost impossible to earn a living as an Alaskan guide....most of the guides I know are school teachers, carpenters, city workers or travel to many other rivers and even other countries to be able to work.
    Your right, it is unconstitutional to ban them from opening a business in Alaska, but if there was a program like they have with hunting guides, 5 year apprenticeship with a resident fishing guide, then they can open their own business and become a master fishing guide, that would reduce the population of fishing guides on rivers.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    You'd be suprised how many "brother(s)" these guides have. Yes, to enforce it correctly, they would have to stay off the water. PERIOD.
    What I meant was actual brother(s), born of the same two parents. Just doesn't seem right to keep a person or persons off a water when there is no commercial transaction just because they are in a certain marked boat.

    However, I understand what you are saying, as we have a lot of people illegally guiding by taking their "good friends" out hunting down here. Interesting however, when you ask the folks that are doing the illegal guiding what their "really good friends" last name is they can't tell you!!!

    Seems like there would be another way to regulate the numbers of anglers if that is what the goal is.

    ClearCreek

  20. #20
    Member mudbuddy's Avatar
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    Well I've fished the Kenai area & The Yetna/Su drainage for years.
    Even worked for a commercial fisherman in Cook Inlet.
    The only area that has any restrictions seems to be the Kenani R.
    I'm not saying to stop guide services but when the fishing license & king tag money goes back into helping maintain strong runs of fish, spend some of it doing a survey of some other areas of the state & develop a a management plan that serves all fishermen/women.

    Another point I have is commercial & guide services are making money from a natural renewable Alaska state resource. Maybe a little fee/tax on the money making user group to go back into studies & enhancement of the fishery they are making their money from. Seems all we get here are shutdowns or threats of shut downs to maintain the runs.
    The guides with big boats moved from the Kenai to the Susitna R drainage years ago when the motor size was restricted to 35 HP.
    The Kenai guide lobbying got it back to 50 hp. Now 4 cycle. The typical Alaska resident can't afford to buy a new motor every year, do the guides know this & use it to keep some of us away from the Kenai? (no answer, I'm just venting). Now you need a 4 cycle to dip net with a boat below the bridge where a fleet of commercial boat are anchored.

    Now I'm getting hit with a $10 king stamp for 5 kings & can only get 5.
    Just wondering where the sport fisherman/women/kids lobbyists are. Non existent!

    Seems to be headed in the typical direction: It's about the money, just have the middle class working family folks "supply the money"

    As for the $50 guide fee for how many fishermen taken out & no state tax on profit & my guess is none on tips (state or federal).
    I have $68 for my wife's & my fishing licenses & king tags. 2 fishing people not making any money from it.
    Money from fishing for families seems to got one way "OUT". (though the fish are real good eating.)

    It is, has been & will be a continuing battle between the user groups.
    I'm just looking from my 32 year perspective & seeing changes that do not have my interests in mind. Maybe I just need to yell louder.
    Now ask the bears, & eagles I bet they have ideas too

    All this is IMHO

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